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Again, that happened in Egypt, and the US were very much happy to support a coup that undone everything gained by the Egyption revolution.

ginko 6y ago
Why do you believe the US supported the 2013 coup?
- newen 6y ago
  https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support-egyptian-democracy-lasted-roughly-six-weeks/ https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support...
- mrwnmonm 6y ago
  Responded in another comment.
- mrwnmonm 6y ago
  Adding that Trump sat with Al Sisi in the white house while saying he did a very good job in a difficult situation. While I won't judge the US by what someone like Trump says, but those words were very true. Obama wasn't just that stupid to announce it like that.
simonh 6y ago
The US has no say in the internal politics of Egypt, or any Arab countries. The most the West can do is stand by watching in horror, wringing our hands. When we do get mired in it, as with Iraq, the limits of our actual ability to direct change becomes painfully apparent very quickly.
- typon 6y ago
  This comment is in the category of "not even wrong"
- newen 6y ago
  https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support-egyptian-democracy-lasted-roughly-six-weeks/ https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support...
- mrwnmonm 6y ago
  The west, the most powerful civilization in history, stand by watching in horror. Are you serious? I don't have links or videos saved with me right now, but I am an Egyptian and followed all of what happened. I can get it if I wanted, but it will take time. But I think you can easily find it. Listen to professor Chomsky's lectures for example. As far as I remember, this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPYN82xHck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPYN82xHck) contains most of his opinions about it. But I would have to watch it again to be sure. Even "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" was joking about how Obama didn't admit the coup to keep giving them aid, but I also don't have the link of the episode here. So I think it is obvious if you wanted to see it. But pick your opinion as you wish. It is a free world, right?
  - simonh 6y ago
    Ive seen that one already, and just listened to some of it again s a quick refresher. Chomsky does accuse the US government of not wanting a democratic government in Egypt, but doesn't actually blame them for the failure of the Morsi government. Instead he blames his friends in the left Liberal movement of Egypt for supporting the Military coup. As for Obama fudging the question of whether it was a coup, that's exactly the useless after the fact hand-wringing I'm talking about. At that point the coup was a done deal. It may even be true that western leaders prefer to deal with Middle Eastern autocrats, but (a) when given the opportunity that's not what they set up in Iraq. And (b) they don't actually get to decide who rules any Arab countries anyway. Even in Iraq which they conquered, because they handed that decision over to the electorate.
    - mrwnmonm 6y ago
      I didn't talk about the failure of the Morsi government, that is highly controversial. I am saying that they supported the coup before it even happens. They communicated with the military before the coup, giving them the green light to do it. As I said, I didn't save the sources, but I know what I have read. But I can't ask you to believe me in that case.
    - mrwnmonm 6y ago
      And what did Obama say (then do) about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_massacre I know that there are a lot of people in the west who are honest about their values. But we don't see that at all from the governments. So don't blame us thinking that the US never cared about their values.
jchb 6y ago
Even if that would be true (that US supported that coup), would the democratically elected Mohamed Morsi have promoted science education in Egypt? The Muslim Brotherhood's history of science education doesn't seem so rosy. I am curious what you think of https://www.hudson.org/research/9881-the-muslim-brotherhood-s-concept-of-education https://www.hudson.org/research/9881-the-muslim-brotherhood-... (yes, I know this is written by an Israeli)
- mrwnmonm 6y ago
  Will take my time reading this. But will tell you my opinion. No, I don't think the MBH would accept ALL the results of science. But I do think they would have made what they could to make the education system better. But again this is not the point, What about after the MBH? Maybe someone else would came to establish a better system. But now it is all gone. No real elections, and no peaceful transfer of power.

ginko 6y ago

Why do you believe the US supported the 2013 coup?

newen 6y ago
https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support-egyptian-democracy-lasted-roughly-six-weeks/ https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support...
mrwnmonm 6y ago
Responded in another comment.
mrwnmonm 6y ago
Adding that Trump sat with Al Sisi in the white house while saying he did a very good job in a difficult situation. While I won't judge the US by what someone like Trump says, but those words were very true. Obama wasn't just that stupid to announce it like that.

simonh 6y ago

The US has no say in the internal politics of Egypt, or any Arab countries. The most the West can do is stand by watching in horror, wringing our hands. When we do get mired in it, as with Iraq, the limits of our actual ability to direct change becomes painfully apparent very quickly.

typon 6y ago
This comment is in the category of "not even wrong"
newen 6y ago
https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support-egyptian-democracy-lasted-roughly-six-weeks/ https://theintercept.com/2014/10/02/feigned-american-support...
mrwnmonm 6y ago
The west, the most powerful civilization in history, stand by watching in horror. Are you serious? I don't have links or videos saved with me right now, but I am an Egyptian and followed all of what happened. I can get it if I wanted, but it will take time. But I think you can easily find it. Listen to professor Chomsky's lectures for example. As far as I remember, this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPYN82xHck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPYN82xHck) contains most of his opinions about it. But I would have to watch it again to be sure. Even "Last Week Tonight with John Oliver" was joking about how Obama didn't admit the coup to keep giving them aid, but I also don't have the link of the episode here. So I think it is obvious if you wanted to see it. But pick your opinion as you wish. It is a free world, right?
- simonh 6y ago
  Ive seen that one already, and just listened to some of it again s a quick refresher. Chomsky does accuse the US government of not wanting a democratic government in Egypt, but doesn't actually blame them for the failure of the Morsi government. Instead he blames his friends in the left Liberal movement of Egypt for supporting the Military coup. As for Obama fudging the question of whether it was a coup, that's exactly the useless after the fact hand-wringing I'm talking about. At that point the coup was a done deal. It may even be true that western leaders prefer to deal with Middle Eastern autocrats, but (a) when given the opportunity that's not what they set up in Iraq. And (b) they don't actually get to decide who rules any Arab countries anyway. Even in Iraq which they conquered, because they handed that decision over to the electorate.
  - mrwnmonm 6y ago
    I didn't talk about the failure of the Morsi government, that is highly controversial. I am saying that they supported the coup before it even happens. They communicated with the military before the coup, giving them the green light to do it. As I said, I didn't save the sources, but I know what I have read. But I can't ask you to believe me in that case.
  - mrwnmonm 6y ago
    And what did Obama say (then do) about this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_2013_Rabaa_massacre I know that there are a lot of people in the west who are honest about their values. But we don't see that at all from the governments. So don't blame us thinking that the US never cared about their values.

jchb 6y ago

Even if that would be true (that US supported that coup), would the democratically elected Mohamed Morsi have promoted science education in Egypt? The Muslim Brotherhood's history of science education doesn't seem so rosy. I am curious what you think of https://www.hudson.org/research/9881-the-muslim-brotherhood-s-concept-of-education https://www.hudson.org/research/9881-the-muslim-brotherhood-... (yes, I know this is written by an Israeli)

mrwnmonm 6y ago
Will take my time reading this. But will tell you my opinion. No, I don't think the MBH would accept ALL the results of science. But I do think they would have made what they could to make the education system better. But again this is not the point, What about after the MBH? Maybe someone else would came to establish a better system. But now it is all gone. No real elections, and no peaceful transfer of power.