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No one who enlists into the military with eyes wide open or who has even cursory access to the internet or films thinks they aren't making a choice that would p

No one who enlists into the military with eyes wide open or who has even cursory access to the internet or films thinks they aren't making a choice that would potentially make them disposable to the military. It's true some people decide that's worth the risk to get college money or some "life skills" or for another myriad of reasons, but it is literally a contract they sign and must be of sound mind to do so. If I decide to become an undersea welder, one of the most dangerous jobs, because the money is good, then I am accepting the risk of getting injured or killed, though I hope I would not have harm befall me. Either way I'm making the choice based on my circumstances. A dog didn't sign up for or agree to any of this.

twalla 6y ago
As a counterpoint to your underwater welder example - the underwater welding industry doesn't have recruiting offices around the country in low income areas or recruiters stationed in high schools, nor do they have an arrangement with movie studios where they can use their underwater welding equipment for free in their movies so long as the movies portray the underwater welding industry in a positive light. It's disappointing that as a society we seem to be cool with (mostly poor) people with undeveloped prefrontal cortices having to make a choice between incurring significant high interest debt (which they were probably never given the tools to make informed decisions about in the first place) or risking their lives for something that's free or at least attainable in the rest of the developed world.
- bdowling 6y ago
  > people with undeveloped prefrontal cortices Someone with an “undeveloped prefrontal cortex”, a vague and insulting description, would be a liability on a battlefield. Not every soldier needs to have a genius IQ, but they need to be competent for their role. The military is also not a college financing program and only an fool would treat it like one.
  - twalla 6y ago
    It's actually not vague and wasn't meant to be insulting - the prefrontal cortex doesn't finish developing in healthy adult humans until around the age of 25 with females developing a little earlier. This area of the brain, particularly the lateral frontal pole, is responsible for long term planning and decisionmaking, it's also one of the latest developing parts of the brain that's involved in decisionmaking. What I'm getting at is that it's ridiculous to try to argue that a 17-18 year old's abilities to plan and make decisions around the future are on par with the abilities of a 25+ year old. The average age of enlistment is 20-21 with a lower bounds of 17. I'm not arguing that the military doesn't provide _lots_ of opportunities to people or that people only enlist for the benefits (the best I could find was a RAND Corp survey predicting likelihood of choosing enlisting of working or going to college), I'm arguing that it's shameful that we aren't able to provide similar opportunities without putting young people, who are at a disadvantage when calculating the risk involved, in shitty situations.
    - climb_stealth 6y ago
      I'm glad you clarified this. Your original statement reads a bit like the undeveloped cortex is due to people being poor and stupid rather than because of being young.
    - kyuudou 6y ago
      One of my starry-eyed dreams if I ever get a sufficient pile of money and power is to start a research foundation that gives smart people somewhere else to go besides the Pentagon or Wall Street.
    - juniper_strong 6y ago
      > the prefrontal cortex doesn't finish developing in healthy adult humans until around the age of 25 Another way to look at this is that if you are young, you only have until the age of 25 until your brain deteriorates to the point that you are incapable of taking real risks.

twalla 6y ago

As a counterpoint to your underwater welder example - the underwater welding industry doesn't have recruiting offices around the country in low income areas or recruiters stationed in high schools, nor do they have an arrangement with movie studios where they can use their underwater welding equipment for free in their movies so long as the movies portray the underwater welding industry in a positive light. It's disappointing that as a society we seem to be cool with (mostly poor) people with undeveloped prefrontal cortices having to make a choice between incurring significant high interest debt (which they were probably never given the tools to make informed decisions about in the first place) or risking their lives for something that's free or at least attainable in the rest of the developed world.

bdowling 6y ago
> people with undeveloped prefrontal cortices Someone with an “undeveloped prefrontal cortex”, a vague and insulting description, would be a liability on a battlefield. Not every soldier needs to have a genius IQ, but they need to be competent for their role. The military is also not a college financing program and only an fool would treat it like one.
- twalla 6y ago
  It's actually not vague and wasn't meant to be insulting - the prefrontal cortex doesn't finish developing in healthy adult humans until around the age of 25 with females developing a little earlier. This area of the brain, particularly the lateral frontal pole, is responsible for long term planning and decisionmaking, it's also one of the latest developing parts of the brain that's involved in decisionmaking. What I'm getting at is that it's ridiculous to try to argue that a 17-18 year old's abilities to plan and make decisions around the future are on par with the abilities of a 25+ year old. The average age of enlistment is 20-21 with a lower bounds of 17. I'm not arguing that the military doesn't provide _lots_ of opportunities to people or that people only enlist for the benefits (the best I could find was a RAND Corp survey predicting likelihood of choosing enlisting of working or going to college), I'm arguing that it's shameful that we aren't able to provide similar opportunities without putting young people, who are at a disadvantage when calculating the risk involved, in shitty situations.
  - climb_stealth 6y ago
    I'm glad you clarified this. Your original statement reads a bit like the undeveloped cortex is due to people being poor and stupid rather than because of being young.
  - kyuudou 6y ago
    One of my starry-eyed dreams if I ever get a sufficient pile of money and power is to start a research foundation that gives smart people somewhere else to go besides the Pentagon or Wall Street.
  - juniper_strong 6y ago
    > the prefrontal cortex doesn't finish developing in healthy adult humans until around the age of 25 Another way to look at this is that if you are young, you only have until the age of 25 until your brain deteriorates to the point that you are incapable of taking real risks.