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"why not just start with a Lisp and improve it" The reason is pretty clear. Mainstream programmers are just allergic to Lisp syntax. They don't like all the

"why not just start with a Lisp and improve it" The reason is pretty clear. Mainstream programmers are just allergic to Lisp syntax. They don't like all the parenthesis, and want a more Algol-like syntax (which, these days, and especially for the users who Julia is trying to attract, means a more Python-like syntax). Lisp for a lot of developers also has an old, stale feel to it. Programming is dominated by fads, and most programmers (especially younger ones) want instead to chase the new shiny. Decades ago, I read that there were already something like 4,000 languages. I expect in another couple of decades there'll be 4,000 more, with every new generation of developers eager to jump on the bandwagon of yet another new language. Python, once the new kid on the block dethroning Perl, is now itself considered to be kind of old and stale, so people are looking for the new thing. Maybe Julia is it!

andi999 6y ago
I believe the bigger problem is that macros are too powerful. This leads to that every project becomes its own DSL, which is not compatible with other projects. So code sharing/ availability of tested libraries is low. This leads to low adoption rate. Of course if you want to build your own (mega-) fortress all by yourself, Lisp is the language to go to. Most people and stakeholder prefer not to.
leephillips 6y ago
This is an issue for me. Although I find the lisp idea beautiful, my programming usually has some relation to mathematics, to equations. In lisp, math just doesn’t look like math. Julia goes the opposite way: it's use of Unicode for identifiers and such things as allowing juxtaposition for multiplication (when not ambiguous) make math look more like math than in any other language.
- pmoriarty 6y ago
  I do like the the option of using unicode symbols in Julia, but this need not be thought of as only a language feature. Emacs allows you to substitute any text for any other when viewing a document, so you can pretty much do the same in Emacs for any language. I did this when editing LaTeX papers full of logic symbols, which Emacs would display as the symbols themselves rather than as the underlying LaTeX markup. It could do the same for Lisp or any other language.
  - jsrcout 6y ago
    > Emacs allows you to substitute any text for any other when viewing a document Do you have a reference or search term for that? My Google-fu is failing me.
    - vats 6y ago
      It's called prettify-symbols-mode: http://www.modernemacs.com/post/prettify-mode/ http://www.modernemacs.com/post/prettify-mode/
  - leephillips 6y ago
    Vim can do this to (with a plugin). And you can enter Unicode in the Julia REPL by entering the TeX command and hitting TAB.

andi999 6y ago

I believe the bigger problem is that macros are too powerful. This leads to that every project becomes its own DSL, which is not compatible with other projects. So code sharing/ availability of tested libraries is low. This leads to low adoption rate. Of course if you want to build your own (mega-) fortress all by yourself, Lisp is the language to go to. Most people and stakeholder prefer not to.

leephillips 6y ago

This is an issue for me. Although I find the lisp idea beautiful, my programming usually has some relation to mathematics, to equations. In lisp, math just doesn’t look like math. Julia goes the opposite way: it's use of Unicode for identifiers and such things as allowing juxtaposition for multiplication (when not ambiguous) make math look more like math than in any other language.

pmoriarty 6y ago
I do like the the option of using unicode symbols in Julia, but this need not be thought of as only a language feature. Emacs allows you to substitute any text for any other when viewing a document, so you can pretty much do the same in Emacs for any language. I did this when editing LaTeX papers full of logic symbols, which Emacs would display as the symbols themselves rather than as the underlying LaTeX markup. It could do the same for Lisp or any other language.
- jsrcout 6y ago
  > Emacs allows you to substitute any text for any other when viewing a document Do you have a reference or search term for that? My Google-fu is failing me.
  - vats 6y ago
    It's called prettify-symbols-mode: http://www.modernemacs.com/post/prettify-mode/ http://www.modernemacs.com/post/prettify-mode/
- leephillips 6y ago
  Vim can do this to (with a plugin). And you can enter Unicode in the Julia REPL by entering the TeX command and hitting TAB.