5 ms·

I think the common lingo is that gender is what you identify as, and sex is what you biologically are (subject to change through sex-change operations).

Out_of_Characte 6y ago
Exect that "Gender" in relationship to any animal or conversation is used interchangeably with sex. While Gender-identity is the new age belief that your "Gender-identity" or gender for short, is a preference you can change (With or without sex change operations depending on your political view). The obfuscation of the word itself is a problem in discussions. I find it distastefull how people can 'identify as' male/female black/white. they are immutable characteristics that no one chose for. If you believe that humans can be tribal and racist but should rise above superficial judgement and look at the content of their character then wether or not you personally identify as certain characteristics should be a moot point.
- helen___keller 6y ago
  > then wether or not you personally identify as certain characteristics should be a moot point I quite agree, but the it's indisputable that these characteristics are enshrined in our culture and power structures every step of the way. Gendered bathrooms, gendered application forms, gendered names, gendered clothing, and so on. If you "personally identify as certain characteristics" it's literally impossible for that to be a "moot point" because of how society is structured. Which bathroom do you walk into? Will you be fired for wearing a dress when your boss sees you as a man? If you change your name to a feminine one, will people ignore it and continue to call you a masculine name? If get a new job and try to hide that you were "once a man", can you actually or will they force you to put your biological sex on the application form? If you are forced to put your biological sex on the application form, what if your new workplace outs you as "a man" to your coworkers despite you having a feminine name, a feminine appearance, and using the women's bathroom? When coworkers find out you are biologically a man but using the women's bathroom, will they ostracize you, call the police, or exact violence on you because you don't fit in their worldview of acceptable behavior? These are real questions that matter to real people and you can't wave it away as "a moot point". Answering these questions, and more, is the entry point to gender studies.
  - Out_of_Characte 6y ago
    >these characteristics are enshrined in our culture and power structures every step of the way. In a way, yes. Because sex is the largest difference between human beings. Its importance is highlighted by doctors needing to know for better treatment, for social circles not being comfortable around people further away from your group. Bathrooms being a painpoint as it has deep roots in culture and history. Though the interesting thing about which bathroom to go to, it becomes irrelivant the moment you enter someone's home; there is only one or two to choose from and they are "Gender neutral" by design. >Will you be fired for wearing a dress when your boss sees you as a man? This is exactly my point, discrimination based on immutable characteristics is wrong. if your boss fires you because you're a man or sees you as a man, or makes judgements because you're a woman pretending to be a man is wrong by design because it is still based on immutable characterstics. Though dress code violation is such a grey area as it is not directly based on strong legal precedent. >If you are forced to put your biological sex on the application form, what if your new workplace outs you as "a man" "IF" you are forced to do so. I've never seen it be mandatory. unless you talk about exeptions to the rule. Like how some women's shelters only hire women. or gynecologists. >will they ostracize you, call the police, or exact violence on you because you don't fit in their worldview of acceptable behavior? Nonetheless, anti-discrimination laws aren't there to stop discrimination or stop people from breaking the law. They are there to put them on trial. Lots of people fall out of a certain worldview and have lost jobs and friends because of that. talk to any clean heroin addict and they'll tell you. These things certainly matter and should be discussed as you are so kind to do. I guess my approach is more conservative when it comes to enacting change in how people are treating each other. I consider no solution better than a bad solution. as no solution at least lets people have the freedom to treat eachother with the respect that they might deserve.
- watwut 6y ago
  I can buy toy car or lego technic for my daughter, both of which is me mismatching sex and gender. Sex is that she does not have penis. Gender is that lego technic and toy car are boy toys. In contrast, my dog is getting dog toys as opposed to pink she-dog balls and black he-dog toys.

Out_of_Characte 6y ago

Exect that "Gender" in relationship to any animal or conversation is used interchangeably with sex. While Gender-identity is the new age belief that your "Gender-identity" or gender for short, is a preference you can change (With or without sex change operations depending on your political view). The obfuscation of the word itself is a problem in discussions. I find it distastefull how people can 'identify as' male/female black/white. they are immutable characteristics that no one chose for. If you believe that humans can be tribal and racist but should rise above superficial judgement and look at the content of their character then wether or not you personally identify as certain characteristics should be a moot point.

helen___keller 6y ago
> then wether or not you personally identify as certain characteristics should be a moot point I quite agree, but the it's indisputable that these characteristics are enshrined in our culture and power structures every step of the way. Gendered bathrooms, gendered application forms, gendered names, gendered clothing, and so on. If you "personally identify as certain characteristics" it's literally impossible for that to be a "moot point" because of how society is structured. Which bathroom do you walk into? Will you be fired for wearing a dress when your boss sees you as a man? If you change your name to a feminine one, will people ignore it and continue to call you a masculine name? If get a new job and try to hide that you were "once a man", can you actually or will they force you to put your biological sex on the application form? If you are forced to put your biological sex on the application form, what if your new workplace outs you as "a man" to your coworkers despite you having a feminine name, a feminine appearance, and using the women's bathroom? When coworkers find out you are biologically a man but using the women's bathroom, will they ostracize you, call the police, or exact violence on you because you don't fit in their worldview of acceptable behavior? These are real questions that matter to real people and you can't wave it away as "a moot point". Answering these questions, and more, is the entry point to gender studies.
- Out_of_Characte 6y ago
  >these characteristics are enshrined in our culture and power structures every step of the way. In a way, yes. Because sex is the largest difference between human beings. Its importance is highlighted by doctors needing to know for better treatment, for social circles not being comfortable around people further away from your group. Bathrooms being a painpoint as it has deep roots in culture and history. Though the interesting thing about which bathroom to go to, it becomes irrelivant the moment you enter someone's home; there is only one or two to choose from and they are "Gender neutral" by design. >Will you be fired for wearing a dress when your boss sees you as a man? This is exactly my point, discrimination based on immutable characteristics is wrong. if your boss fires you because you're a man or sees you as a man, or makes judgements because you're a woman pretending to be a man is wrong by design because it is still based on immutable characterstics. Though dress code violation is such a grey area as it is not directly based on strong legal precedent. >If you are forced to put your biological sex on the application form, what if your new workplace outs you as "a man" "IF" you are forced to do so. I've never seen it be mandatory. unless you talk about exeptions to the rule. Like how some women's shelters only hire women. or gynecologists. >will they ostracize you, call the police, or exact violence on you because you don't fit in their worldview of acceptable behavior? Nonetheless, anti-discrimination laws aren't there to stop discrimination or stop people from breaking the law. They are there to put them on trial. Lots of people fall out of a certain worldview and have lost jobs and friends because of that. talk to any clean heroin addict and they'll tell you. These things certainly matter and should be discussed as you are so kind to do. I guess my approach is more conservative when it comes to enacting change in how people are treating each other. I consider no solution better than a bad solution. as no solution at least lets people have the freedom to treat eachother with the respect that they might deserve.
watwut 6y ago
I can buy toy car or lego technic for my daughter, both of which is me mismatching sex and gender. Sex is that she does not have penis. Gender is that lego technic and toy car are boy toys. In contrast, my dog is getting dog toys as opposed to pink she-dog balls and black he-dog toys.