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You are claiming the paper's authors lied about their numbers and "show absolutely no interest in correcting even the obvious errors." Have you actually contact
by DarkShikari 16y ago
You are claiming the paper's authors lied about their numbers and "show absolutely no interest in correcting even the obvious errors." Have you actually contacted them to be sure you didn't make a mistake? If so, what did they say? I find it hard to believe that they would respond to an accusation of fudging their numbers by saying they don't care.
I've been on IRC with them since I made that post. I have changed that part in the post though -- as even though they appear to have shown no interest, I have received information from an off-the-record source that they are actually looking into it.
This is a conflict of interest that is relevant to your opinion about other video formats.
We're developing xvp8 too, which we will also license. Personally, I don't care who wins, as long as the encoders are good. xvp8 has the bonus benefit that MPEG-LA doesn't demand license fees on it, so we can aim it at some markets we wouldn't otherwise be able to target.
Now, yes, this does create an incentive for me to want to dislike libvpx, as they are now a competitor.
You also have a history of making unfounded accusations.
Is filing for a patent that covers existing open source software suddenly "not bad"? The accusation seems pretty founded to me! The only reason I retracted any of it was because people SENT DEATH THREATS to the programmer whose name was on the patent.
Those are some pretty serious accusations without a whole lot of evidence or specifics to back them up.
Specifics:
Video tested: Deadline CIF
Bitrate: 700kbps
libvpx version: latest git
x264 version: latest git
PSNR achieved by x264 with their settings: 44.507db (roughly matches the graph).
PSNR achieved by libvpx with the settings they referred to: 43.625db (definitely doesn't match the graph)
There are a few possibilities here:
1) libvpx has gotten about ~0.8db worse since they did the test, since I don't have the revision number. Unlikely.
2) The settings they referred to aren't the actual settings they used. Highly likely -- but even enabling the ARNR options, as they mentioned on IRC, only brought libvpx up to about 44.0db.
3) They tweaked the settings specifically for the test. Possible, and not quite as bad as literally making up numbers, but still cheating.
4) They made up the numbers.
But even if I was completely wrong on this, cherry-picking results in such an extreme way is something you do in fluff marketing pieces, not in an academic paper. The entire paper, from top to bottom, reads like marketing: it doesn't mention a single downside of any of their features.
- haberman 16y agoWe're developing xvp8 too, which we will also license. But unlike h.264 (AFAIK), VP8 has a BSD-licensed encoder available. Even if you beat libvpx in speed and/or quality, libvpx will probably be "good enough" for most people. I'm guessing your demand for xvp8 will be much lower, and that you won't be able to price it as high as x.264. Is filing for a patent that covers existing open source software suddenly "not bad"? That's not the accusation I cited. The accusation I cited was that they copied from h.264, which you later admitted might not be true. There are a few possibilities here: 5. They are using code that they have not yet publicly released. 6. They made an honest mistake. 7. They measure PSNR using a different tool, and the two tools have different measurements for some reason (I don't have enough expertise in this space to know if this is actually a possibility or not). There are lots of possibilities. That's why you should really get an explanation from them before you publicly call them liars.
- DarkShikari 16y agoEven if you beat libvpx in speed and/or quality, libvpx will probably be "good enough" for most people. Unlikely: a large percentage of the applications that license x264 are live-streaming apps of some sort (videoconferencing, broadcast, app streaming, etc) -- being slow is a deal-killer for these. But you are right that this does change things somewhat -- though I actually haven't thought too much about that. 5. They are using code that they have not yet publicly released. Likely false. According to my info so far, the tests were done using a daily autobuild from their own system (which, IIRC, builds from git). 7. They measure PSNR using a different tool, and the two tools have different measurements for some reason (I don't have enough expertise in this space to know if this is actually a possibility or not). There are two ways to measure PSNR: Overall/Global and Average. Both showed similar results here though, so that's unlikely to be the issues. 6. They made an honest mistake. Could be. If so, I hope they fix it. I toned down the original post, and in light of your comments, I've delayed making a blog post on the topic for at least a few days until I know exactly what's going on. Thanks for the advice.
- DarkShikari 16y ago