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People forget that many places are extremely lenient when it comes to things like vacation and dress code, etc. They think that when they unionize, the base lev

People forget that many places are extremely lenient when it comes to things like vacation and dress code, etc. They think that when they unionize, the base level of working conditions is what they are currently experiencing and they can only go up from there. But that would be seriously mistaken and I would totally expect employers to play hardball if employees take their benefits for granted and want to play hardball as well. There are definitely environments where unions are needed and have made working conditions better but unionizing in tech where most jobs are cushy is a mistake that only puts money in the hands of union bureaucrats that don’t do anything except complicate everyone’s lives.

creato 6y ago
From the article: > While they are not employed directly by Google, many of them work as analysts on Google Shopping. I highly doubt these were workers with great working conditions and benefits.
kevingadd 6y ago
"union bureaucrats that don’t do anything except complicate everyone’s lives" is an interesting assertion to make in this case where the union hasn't even had an opportunity to do anything bad yet. Why does unionizing have to be treated as "hardball" if the union hasn't even made any demands yet? Does the status quo have to be "employees have to do what I want, no questions, even if it's illegal"? Lots of employer misbehavior is widespread in the US - wage theft, for one, is absolutely rampant - and unionizing is one possible option for combating it because it allows you to collectively bargain to resolve your grievances with the employer instead of dragging them into court or trying to get law enforcement to go after them. It's interesting to me that the mere act of unionizing is somehow justification for an employer to get out the baseball bat and go to town on your knees "because you took your benefits for granted". If things were really so good, why did they unionize?
- remote_phone 6y ago
  This is why you will never see a union in Silicon Valley software company. The benefits are great and unions are unnecessary. I’m sure there are other places where unions are absolutely a necessity but not in a software company in Silicon Valley.
  - tclancy 6y ago
    Nope, this is what dopes everywhere think. It’s scary to ask for more, so you assume you’re getting a fair slice of the pie and never even bother to ask to see the whole thing, much less ask for more. This is the same thought that complains about pro athletes holding out for more millions while never considering how their sport makes billions.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    > This is why you will never see a union in Silicon Valley software company This is less true than it used to be; the Valley has been feeling more progressive and less libertarian for a while. I'm not sure if it's because the field is growing up, so it attracts fewer disrupt-the-world types, shifting generational values, shifting cultural values, more influence from SF and the tech scene moved north, the pendulum swinging back as people see the consequences of tech, or something else. That said, as long as it's a competitive job market in tech, I agree that seeing a union isn't likely because there isn't a clear benefit.
tclancy 6y ago
Yes, because that is the general approach, companies are giving away all sorts of free money with no expectation of tit for tat as long as you never unionize. The dress code and vacation policy will get worse if you have a collective voice? Where do people living in a capitalist economy get the idea their bosses are socialists who are giving things away?
- kevingadd 6y ago
  It'd be presumptuous for me to call this "uniquely american" but there's a really deeply embedded part of the american philosophy that suggests merely having a job is a gift and you owe everything to your employer, even if they abuse you or steal your wages or injure you through neglect or lay you off for getting the flu. People should be grateful that they have their job at McBurgerchain even though it only pays minimum wage and 120hrs/wk at that minimum wage might not be enough to pay for rent and food in their area, if they can even get 120hrs across 3 jobs (they probably can't). If you look at a lot of the chatter that leads towards discussions of unionization in workplaces these days, it's really mundane stuff and not Politics or Socialism. People talking about blatantly abusive employer behavior, wage theft, poor safety/hygiene, bad benefits, etc - an employer can easily mitigate a lot of this stuff and have happy workers who won't have much reason to unionize, and I think part of the reason unions are so rare in tech to this day is that many tech employees are satisfied. If a tech workplace unionizes I think that's an obvious sign that the employees were unhappy enough to go through all the trouble of doing it, it's not something they'd do on a whim.
  - tclancy 6y ago
    You wouldn’t understand the temporarily embarrassed millionaires here. It’s also American to be horrified by my compatriots willingness to accept the bare minimum they receive as good as it gets.

creato 6y ago

From the article: > While they are not employed directly by Google, many of them work as analysts on Google Shopping. I highly doubt these were workers with great working conditions and benefits.

kevingadd 6y ago

"union bureaucrats that don’t do anything except complicate everyone’s lives" is an interesting assertion to make in this case where the union hasn't even had an opportunity to do anything bad yet. Why does unionizing have to be treated as "hardball" if the union hasn't even made any demands yet? Does the status quo have to be "employees have to do what I want, no questions, even if it's illegal"? Lots of employer misbehavior is widespread in the US - wage theft, for one, is absolutely rampant - and unionizing is one possible option for combating it because it allows you to collectively bargain to resolve your grievances with the employer instead of dragging them into court or trying to get law enforcement to go after them. It's interesting to me that the mere act of unionizing is somehow justification for an employer to get out the baseball bat and go to town on your knees "because you took your benefits for granted". If things were really so good, why did they unionize?

remote_phone 6y ago
This is why you will never see a union in Silicon Valley software company. The benefits are great and unions are unnecessary. I’m sure there are other places where unions are absolutely a necessity but not in a software company in Silicon Valley.
- tclancy 6y ago
  Nope, this is what dopes everywhere think. It’s scary to ask for more, so you assume you’re getting a fair slice of the pie and never even bother to ask to see the whole thing, much less ask for more. This is the same thought that complains about pro athletes holding out for more millions while never considering how their sport makes billions.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > This is why you will never see a union in Silicon Valley software company This is less true than it used to be; the Valley has been feeling more progressive and less libertarian for a while. I'm not sure if it's because the field is growing up, so it attracts fewer disrupt-the-world types, shifting generational values, shifting cultural values, more influence from SF and the tech scene moved north, the pendulum swinging back as people see the consequences of tech, or something else. That said, as long as it's a competitive job market in tech, I agree that seeing a union isn't likely because there isn't a clear benefit.

tclancy 6y ago

Yes, because that is the general approach, companies are giving away all sorts of free money with no expectation of tit for tat as long as you never unionize. The dress code and vacation policy will get worse if you have a collective voice? Where do people living in a capitalist economy get the idea their bosses are socialists who are giving things away?

kevingadd 6y ago
It'd be presumptuous for me to call this "uniquely american" but there's a really deeply embedded part of the american philosophy that suggests merely having a job is a gift and you owe everything to your employer, even if they abuse you or steal your wages or injure you through neglect or lay you off for getting the flu. People should be grateful that they have their job at McBurgerchain even though it only pays minimum wage and 120hrs/wk at that minimum wage might not be enough to pay for rent and food in their area, if they can even get 120hrs across 3 jobs (they probably can't). If you look at a lot of the chatter that leads towards discussions of unionization in workplaces these days, it's really mundane stuff and not Politics or Socialism. People talking about blatantly abusive employer behavior, wage theft, poor safety/hygiene, bad benefits, etc - an employer can easily mitigate a lot of this stuff and have happy workers who won't have much reason to unionize, and I think part of the reason unions are so rare in tech to this day is that many tech employees are satisfied. If a tech workplace unionizes I think that's an obvious sign that the employees were unhappy enough to go through all the trouble of doing it, it's not something they'd do on a whim.
- tclancy 6y ago
  You wouldn’t understand the temporarily embarrassed millionaires here. It’s also American to be horrified by my compatriots willingness to accept the bare minimum they receive as good as it gets.