4 ms·

That's not a very nuanced read of why the policies are there in the first place. I think the goal of having a more diverse student body is a good idea and stud

by wyxuan 6y ago

That's not a very nuanced read of why the policies are there in the first place. I think the goal of having a more diverse student body is a good idea and studies show there are clear intergenerational benefits to having first generation minorities attending elite colleges versus a not so clear one for everyone else. I disagree with casting it all aside with 'racist BS'. There can (and should) be critique, but it shouldn't be a broad swipe.

thereisnospork 6y ago
No, there shouldn't be discussion and nuance about judging people based on their race: it is not acceptable and positions to the contrary and in violation of the spirit and letter of the 14th amendment.
- dahart 6y ago
  It's true - there shouldn't be. But there is judgement embedded in society. There has been judgement throughout history. This is not a question of whether we should judge any races, this is a question of how to eliminate the subtle cultural racism that still exists and hasn't gone away for a hundred years even with a lot of effort. If we can't discuss what's happening, then how can we fix it? FWIW, affirmative action in various forms has been implemented and debated for a hundred and fifty years in the US. It has in the past been the law of the land, without contradicting the idea that we aren't allowed to discriminate against races. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_Unit...
  - antepodius 6y ago
    You've always been allowed to discriminate, as long as it's against whatever the socially acceptable targets are at the time, in a socially accepted venue.
    - dahart 6y ago
      What do you mean we’ve always been allowed to discriminate? I disagree; being “allowed” is what’s legal, that’s different from what’s socially acceptable. Discrimination by race in employment hiring has been illegal by law explicitly for 50 years and implicitly for 150 years. Yes many people have discriminated by race anyway and gotten away with it. Some still are. A major goal of affirmative actions are to try to get what’s socially acceptably wrong to move toward what’s legal and ethically right.

by wyxuan 6y ago

thereisnospork 6y ago

No, there shouldn't be discussion and nuance about judging people based on their race: it is not acceptable and positions to the contrary and in violation of the spirit and letter of the 14th amendment.

dahart 6y ago
It's true - there shouldn't be. But there is judgement embedded in society. There has been judgement throughout history. This is not a question of whether we should judge any races, this is a question of how to eliminate the subtle cultural racism that still exists and hasn't gone away for a hundred years even with a lot of effort. If we can't discuss what's happening, then how can we fix it? FWIW, affirmative action in various forms has been implemented and debated for a hundred and fifty years in the US. It has in the past been the law of the land, without contradicting the idea that we aren't allowed to discriminate against races. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_the_Unit...
- antepodius 6y ago
  You've always been allowed to discriminate, as long as it's against whatever the socially acceptable targets are at the time, in a socially accepted venue.
  - dahart 6y ago
    What do you mean we’ve always been allowed to discriminate? I disagree; being “allowed” is what’s legal, that’s different from what’s socially acceptable. Discrimination by race in employment hiring has been illegal by law explicitly for 50 years and implicitly for 150 years. Yes many people have discriminated by race anyway and gotten away with it. Some still are. A major goal of affirmative actions are to try to get what’s socially acceptably wrong to move toward what’s legal and ethically right.