4 ms·

I would love to see IBM try to sue Oracle for the entirety of its history of database revenues over its use of their SQL API...

Jtsummers 6y ago
SQL is an ISO standard. IBM would only have grounds if any part of Oracle's implementation implemented a proprietary portion of an IBM database implementation. This is the positive thing about standards, it removes ambiguity around what people can/should implement and present to users of the systems.
- jmalicki 6y ago
  The IBM implementation of SQL far predates the ISO standard. Does something being standardized somehow relinquish the copyright? The idea of APIs being copyrightable is new, has IBM somehow relinquished its copyright claims for SQL to ISO? This article discusses the possibility at length https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/03/before-it-sued-google-for-copying-from-java-oracle-got-rich-copying-ibms-sql/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/03/before-it-sued-g...
  - rusk 6y ago
    I think you have to have demonstrated that you have taken steps to protect your copyright. I’d imagine submitting to a standard would relinquish that. Patents on the other hand ...
    - jmalicki 6y ago
      I have heard that a lot for trademarks, do you have reference for copyrights?
    - ghaff 6y ago
      You absolutely do not have to protect a copyright. Even if a book is out of print, you can't start selling it--or even giving copies away for free. However, although IANAL, I assume that submitting something to a standards body and having it accepted allows those standards to be used in accordance with the terms of the standards body--which BTW may not require that use be free in all cases.
      - jlarocco 6y ago
        > Even if a book is out of print, you can't start selling it--or even giving copies away for free. That's not exactly true. You can't photocopy it and start printing your own. But if you have legal copies of it, you can definitely sell them or give them away.
        ghaff 6y ago
        First-sale doctrine of physical artifacts. But not copies of those. Correct.
  - jolux 6y ago
    Yeah but what did Oracle copy here? They made the language compatible, but did they copy the API too? Cleanrooms have been a thing for a long time.
- jmalicki 6y ago
  Also note that even for established patents, a ton of standards standardized patented technology, and implementing the standard requires a patent license! This is a huge part of how Qualcomm makes its patent revenue from 3G/4G implementors.
  - rocqua 6y ago
    From what I heard, a large part of the politics in 3GPP standardization are about big companies wanting the prescribed methods to use their patents.
sangnoir 6y ago
I would like to see Amazon sue Oracle for their S3-compatible API for Oracle cloud.

Jtsummers 6y ago

SQL is an ISO standard. IBM would only have grounds if any part of Oracle's implementation implemented a proprietary portion of an IBM database implementation. This is the positive thing about standards, it removes ambiguity around what people can/should implement and present to users of the systems.

jmalicki 6y ago
The IBM implementation of SQL far predates the ISO standard. Does something being standardized somehow relinquish the copyright? The idea of APIs being copyrightable is new, has IBM somehow relinquished its copyright claims for SQL to ISO? This article discusses the possibility at length https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/03/before-it-sued-google-for-copying-from-java-oracle-got-rich-copying-ibms-sql/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/03/before-it-sued-g...
- rusk 6y ago
  I think you have to have demonstrated that you have taken steps to protect your copyright. I’d imagine submitting to a standard would relinquish that. Patents on the other hand ...
  - jmalicki 6y ago
    I have heard that a lot for trademarks, do you have reference for copyrights?
  - ghaff 6y ago
    You absolutely do not have to protect a copyright. Even if a book is out of print, you can't start selling it--or even giving copies away for free. However, although IANAL, I assume that submitting something to a standards body and having it accepted allows those standards to be used in accordance with the terms of the standards body--which BTW may not require that use be free in all cases.
    - jlarocco 6y ago
      > Even if a book is out of print, you can't start selling it--or even giving copies away for free. That's not exactly true. You can't photocopy it and start printing your own. But if you have legal copies of it, you can definitely sell them or give them away.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        First-sale doctrine of physical artifacts. But not copies of those. Correct.
- jolux 6y ago
  Yeah but what did Oracle copy here? They made the language compatible, but did they copy the API too? Cleanrooms have been a thing for a long time.
jmalicki 6y ago
Also note that even for established patents, a ton of standards standardized patented technology, and implementing the standard requires a patent license! This is a huge part of how Qualcomm makes its patent revenue from 3G/4G implementors.
- rocqua 6y ago
  From what I heard, a large part of the politics in 3GPP standardization are about big companies wanting the prescribed methods to use their patents.

sangnoir 6y ago

I would like to see Amazon sue Oracle for their S3-compatible API for Oracle cloud.