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Well, they might have a "lead" in the sense that they have technology to avoid having a driver, but there's still chicken-and-egg problems like demand vs availa

by lhorie 6y ago

Well, they might have a "lead" in the sense that they have technology to avoid having a driver, but there's still chicken-and-egg problems like demand vs availability and wait times (two of the criticisms lashed out at taxis, in comparison to Uber). I'm also curious about how driverless plays out in the real world (e.g. is there an equivalent of "oh shoot, I accidentally put the wrong address, can you drop me off over at X instead?", what's going to happen with drunk passengers, etc) I'm also wary because ride sharing is a customer service intensive industry, an area Alphabet isn't exactly strong at.

bsder 6y ago
> problems like demand vs availability and wait times (two of the criticisms lashed out at taxis, in comparison to Uber). These were never my problems with taxi service. Tracking is the thing that makes the rideshare services better--and taxis could apply that, if they wanted to. Tracking solves most bad things about taxis. "Is it actually coming? How long until it gets here? Did they hit something unexpected? etc."
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  > Tracking is the thing that makes the rideshare services better--and taxis could apply that, if they wanted to. Don’t forget: upfront pricing. Most taxis won’t tell you the price until you get to your destination. And how do you know they took the quickest route?
  - bsder 6y ago
    > Don’t forget: upfront pricing. Again, I can't remember ever having that problem. If I had to phone call the taxi--I always got a price. That's fair as the price needs to be high enough to roll the taxi. If I didn't, then the price was specified--$X from Zone A to B and $0.Y for time spent not moving. > And how do you know they took the quickest route? This is questionable even with ridesharing. I regularly have to fight with drivers going to my airport in the morning. "Look, I know your route says go via State 666. Don't. It's completely green now but in 10 minutes at 6:45AM that road goes from green to black AND you can't change route once you're on it--it will take 40+ minutes. Go via Interstate 13--it will take 20 minutes, tops. Everything will be fine, and, if it isn't, you can get off the Interstate and take another route, of which there are lots." And those are exactly the kind of routes that cabbies use to inflate prices. See: Las Vegas--a good cabbie moves a couple of streets in the wrong direction to get away from the strip, moves most of the distance, and then works back to your destination.
    - ncallaway 6y ago
      The quickest route is as problematic for a rideshare, because the trip was priced upfront. If they take a suboptimal route, you as the rider aren't charged more. The incentives are also better aligned, since the driver now would always prefer the quickest route, since they get the same payment regardless of the route. > If I didn't, then the price was specified--$X from Zone A to B and $0.Y for time spent not moving. That's...exactly the non-upfront pricing that got taxis killed. Upfront pricing is $X to your destination. It's not route and time dependent as almost all taxi pricing was.
      - bsder 6y ago
        Somebody has to pay for the fact that a driver lost 90 minutes in a traffic jam because some idiot caused a traffic fatality and blocked everything up. Or does the driver have a right to kick you out of his cab when the ride becomes unprofitable? The only question about payment is "Who?" As much as you can fight it, at the end of the day the answer will always be "the end consumer." The only question is whether you pay it on every ride as an up front increase or whether you pay it on the unfortunate ride as an addition. Both are perfectly acceptable solutions and can even coexist in the market in different companies. People have gotten spoiled by the fact that ridesharing was burning VC cash to subsidize exceptional cases. Once those costs all quit being subsidized, they're all going to materialize back to the end consumer.
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        Did someone say no one should pay for the traffic jam? What no one ends up paying for when incentives are aligned however, is taking the tourist from the airport on an unsolicited tour of the city rather than directly to their destination. Or the taxi driver who accidentally ends up on that one road that always has an idiot who caused a fatality when there were others that were less busy at the time. _That_ is what most people are worried about, not having to reimburse someone for an unforeseen circumstance.
        WWLink 6y ago
- lhorie 6y ago
  Availability is definitely a big one in big cities. I recall seeing coverage maps where virtually all of the suburbs were severely underserved by existing taxi unions, since downtown was where volume was perceived to be. The whole Prop22 thing in California is another facet to the equation: ride sharing companies argue that freelance status means they have a far bigger, broader and elastic fleet, whereas a model with fixed costs would make availability look more like taxis before rideshare came along.

by lhorie 6y ago

bsder 6y ago

> problems like demand vs availability and wait times (two of the criticisms lashed out at taxis, in comparison to Uber). These were never my problems with taxi service. Tracking is the thing that makes the rideshare services better--and taxis could apply that, if they wanted to. Tracking solves most bad things about taxis. "Is it actually coming? How long until it gets here? Did they hit something unexpected? etc."

colejohnson66 6y ago
> Tracking is the thing that makes the rideshare services better--and taxis could apply that, if they wanted to. Don’t forget: upfront pricing. Most taxis won’t tell you the price until you get to your destination. And how do you know they took the quickest route?
- bsder 6y ago
  > Don’t forget: upfront pricing. Again, I can't remember ever having that problem. If I had to phone call the taxi--I always got a price. That's fair as the price needs to be high enough to roll the taxi. If I didn't, then the price was specified--$X from Zone A to B and $0.Y for time spent not moving. > And how do you know they took the quickest route? This is questionable even with ridesharing. I regularly have to fight with drivers going to my airport in the morning. "Look, I know your route says go via State 666. Don't. It's completely green now but in 10 minutes at 6:45AM that road goes from green to black AND you can't change route once you're on it--it will take 40+ minutes. Go via Interstate 13--it will take 20 minutes, tops. Everything will be fine, and, if it isn't, you can get off the Interstate and take another route, of which there are lots." And those are exactly the kind of routes that cabbies use to inflate prices. See: Las Vegas--a good cabbie moves a couple of streets in the wrong direction to get away from the strip, moves most of the distance, and then works back to your destination.
  - ncallaway 6y ago
    The quickest route is as problematic for a rideshare, because the trip was priced upfront. If they take a suboptimal route, you as the rider aren't charged more. The incentives are also better aligned, since the driver now would always prefer the quickest route, since they get the same payment regardless of the route. > If I didn't, then the price was specified--$X from Zone A to B and $0.Y for time spent not moving. That's...exactly the non-upfront pricing that got taxis killed. Upfront pricing is $X to your destination. It's not route and time dependent as almost all taxi pricing was.
    - bsder 6y ago
      Somebody has to pay for the fact that a driver lost 90 minutes in a traffic jam because some idiot caused a traffic fatality and blocked everything up. Or does the driver have a right to kick you out of his cab when the ride becomes unprofitable? The only question about payment is "Who?" As much as you can fight it, at the end of the day the answer will always be "the end consumer." The only question is whether you pay it on every ride as an up front increase or whether you pay it on the unfortunate ride as an addition. Both are perfectly acceptable solutions and can even coexist in the market in different companies. People have gotten spoiled by the fact that ridesharing was burning VC cash to subsidize exceptional cases. Once those costs all quit being subsidized, they're all going to materialize back to the end consumer.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        Did someone say no one should pay for the traffic jam? What no one ends up paying for when incentives are aligned however, is taking the tourist from the airport on an unsolicited tour of the city rather than directly to their destination. Or the taxi driver who accidentally ends up on that one road that always has an idiot who caused a fatality when there were others that were less busy at the time. _That_ is what most people are worried about, not having to reimburse someone for an unforeseen circumstance.
        WWLink 6y ago
lhorie 6y ago
Availability is definitely a big one in big cities. I recall seeing coverage maps where virtually all of the suburbs were severely underserved by existing taxi unions, since downtown was where volume was perceived to be. The whole Prop22 thing in California is another facet to the equation: ride sharing companies argue that freelance status means they have a far bigger, broader and elastic fleet, whereas a model with fixed costs would make availability look more like taxis before rideshare came along.