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Jeb Bush on Disrupting the Educational Status Quo

DanielBMarkham 16y ago
Although Jeb's a politician, to my knowledge he's not running for anything any more and saw this as a transformational, not political interview. If I understood him correctly, he's talking not just about school choice, but about dividing up the money spent per credit and then using market forces to create and allocate value directly to the student. If somebody could pull something like that off, it has the potential to create tons of startups and completely transform education. Whether or not it's all pie-in-the-sky, of course, is a open question. Can you imagine an App store, but solely for education? You could split the problem hundreds of ways, like creating app for just something like High School mathematics? You could even add in proctors and other physical aspects. In addition, using the app store metaphor, people could rate the app, get their money back if not satisfied, or compare test score results. That would be something in education worth pushing for.
- dalke 16y ago
  "Can you imagine an App store, but solely for education?" No, actually, I can't. Sentences like "markets work and monopolies resist that" make no sense to me. If markets work, how are there monopolies in the first place, unless monopolies are naturally part of the market? How does the market on its own prevent immoral or illegal activities without oversight? Will education in this manner cause a perception of a zero-sum game, preventing collaboration among teachers working the market in competition for the same money? In what sense are test scores meaningful, and could you put your money into changing the tests? If so, given 100s of tests, which are the most relevant? How do you measure the value of physical education? Of learning to draw? Of performing in a school play? Of understanding inductive logic? Is it the number of likes vs. dislikes? How do you judge a department head who does a great job in keeping all the teachers working well, but is only an average teacher? Is the solution in that case to take money away from the head, or help get better training as a teacher? In the app store model, who decides? How do they get this information? How are most not overwhelmed with data, causing analysis lock and/or hitting the paradox of choice, thus leaving it up to highly suspect gut feelings?
  - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
    Turn the analogy around backwards: why does the app store -- the entire concept of making and selling little bits of functionality -- work at all? Doesn't it encourage the perception of a zero-sum game, etc. Obviously this doesn't happen, so I would be careful to distinguish things that might happen from things that are actually happening. We can sit around for years making up various doomsday scenarios. Why do monopolies form? Is that your question? Lots of reasons, usually related to the structure of the market itself: use of government regulation, control over information, ownership of tools, etc. Not sure if the question is really relevant,though. I really wouldn't worry about monopolies versus free markets -- sounds like you're getting hung up on that. How about just trying the idea of a la carte purchasing of educational training? Just like we do with most everything else in life? If I want to learn to scuba dive, or fly airplanes, or learn to speak a language, or become a real-estate agent I easily manage to locate and purchase those items one at a time. Why not the same with drawing, music, being in a play, or any of those other things? Some of these things may require a building and a social experience with lots of other kids, some may not. Opening it up allows for lots of solutions to form, concentrating on what works, not what might or might not sound good in a political speech. The conversation becomes what the exact requirements for an education are, and who gets to decide that, instead of what the structure or the education delivery system is. Isn't that change of dynamics awesome?

Although Jeb's a politician, to my knowledge he's not running for anything any more and saw this as a transformational, not political interview. If I understood him correctly, he's talking not just about school choice, but about dividing up the money spent per credit and then using market forces to create and allocate value directly to the student. If somebody could pull something like that off, it has the potential to create tons of startups and completely transform education. Whether or not it's all pie-in-the-sky, of course, is a open question. Can you imagine an App store, but solely for education? You could split the problem hundreds of ways, like creating app for just something like High School mathematics? You could even add in proctors and other physical aspects. In addition, using the app store metaphor, people could rate the app, get their money back if not satisfied, or compare test score results. That would be something in education worth pushing for.

dalke 16y ago
"Can you imagine an App store, but solely for education?" No, actually, I can't. Sentences like "markets work and monopolies resist that" make no sense to me. If markets work, how are there monopolies in the first place, unless monopolies are naturally part of the market? How does the market on its own prevent immoral or illegal activities without oversight? Will education in this manner cause a perception of a zero-sum game, preventing collaboration among teachers working the market in competition for the same money? In what sense are test scores meaningful, and could you put your money into changing the tests? If so, given 100s of tests, which are the most relevant? How do you measure the value of physical education? Of learning to draw? Of performing in a school play? Of understanding inductive logic? Is it the number of likes vs. dislikes? How do you judge a department head who does a great job in keeping all the teachers working well, but is only an average teacher? Is the solution in that case to take money away from the head, or help get better training as a teacher? In the app store model, who decides? How do they get this information? How are most not overwhelmed with data, causing analysis lock and/or hitting the paradox of choice, thus leaving it up to highly suspect gut feelings?
- DanielBMarkham 16y ago
  Turn the analogy around backwards: why does the app store -- the entire concept of making and selling little bits of functionality -- work at all? Doesn't it encourage the perception of a zero-sum game, etc. Obviously this doesn't happen, so I would be careful to distinguish things that might happen from things that are actually happening. We can sit around for years making up various doomsday scenarios. Why do monopolies form? Is that your question? Lots of reasons, usually related to the structure of the market itself: use of government regulation, control over information, ownership of tools, etc. Not sure if the question is really relevant,though. I really wouldn't worry about monopolies versus free markets -- sounds like you're getting hung up on that. How about just trying the idea of a la carte purchasing of educational training? Just like we do with most everything else in life? If I want to learn to scuba dive, or fly airplanes, or learn to speak a language, or become a real-estate agent I easily manage to locate and purchase those items one at a time. Why not the same with drawing, music, being in a play, or any of those other things? Some of these things may require a building and a social experience with lots of other kids, some may not. Opening it up allows for lots of solutions to form, concentrating on what works, not what might or might not sound good in a political speech. The conversation becomes what the exact requirements for an education are, and who gets to decide that, instead of what the structure or the education delivery system is. Isn't that change of dynamics awesome?