6 ms·

>>"that the conservative majority is predisposed to treat everything as property..." This is misleading at best. For example: RBG, despite her left-leaning re

>>"that the conservative majority is predisposed to treat everything as property..." This is misleading at best. For example: RBG, despite her left-leaning reputation, was easily one of, if not the, most pro-copyright and pro-IP justices on the bench. (Relatedly, she also was pretty pro big business, which rarely fits the portrayed narrative.) Not all areas of law, especially at the Supreme Court level, easily translate into right/left politics. https://www.law360.com/articles/1312244/ginsburg-remembered-as-steadfast-pro-copyright-voice https://www.law360.com/articles/1312244/ginsburg-remembered-... https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2020/09/23/justice_ginsburg_was_a_leader_in_protecting_intellectual_property_rights_578330.html https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2020/09/23/justice...

x3ro 6y ago
This is a strawman. The argument wasn't that no left-leaning people would treat things as property, but that most conservatives would. As such, you're not attacking the actual argument with your point.
- pc86 6y ago
  It's not a strawman at all, as the original statement is clearly setting up the flip side of that argument - that left-leaning justices are less likely to do so.
  - Talanes 6y ago
    Well, even then, showing one left-leaning justice with pro-property stances doesn't actually disprove that argument. Less likely things still happen some of the time.
grasshopperpurp 6y ago
I'm no expert on RBG, but I always pegged her as a Neo-Lib, rather than a Leftist.
- cultus 6y ago
  This is really an important distinction. Social issues like gay marriage and things like this are completely orthogonal. The Democratic Party as a whole is very much neoliberal or liberal as opposed to left. Liberal judges are much the same.
  - pessimizer 6y ago
    Both parties are liberal. Republicans deviate from liberalism when pandering to their religious base, and Democrats deviate from liberalism when adding to the social safety net and labor rights, pandering to their left base. Neither party takes their deviations from liberalism seriously, and both parties have an interest in not resolving those (wedge) issues to keep voters from drifting to the other party.
  - neves 6y ago
    The Democratic Party would be considered center-right in any other country of the world, but the USA.
    - drstewart 6y ago
      The DNC would be center right in Saudi Arabia? By what metric? What is with the ridiculous hyperbole that's so common when talking about America on the internet, especially by non-Americans? Talk about "American exceptionalism" - just in a different way.
      - typon 6y ago
        I think OP implied "any democratic western nation".
        tathougies 6y ago
        Ah right, the soft ethno-nationalism of implying that the only 'real countries' are the western democratic ones.... great...
xxpor 6y ago
Everyone freaks out about social issues with SCOTUS (which is understandable), but their real impact is on economics. The destruction they've laid on the labor movement and help for big businesses is immense. Just look at the commentary around overturning Chevron deference and non-delegation. Absolutely apocalyptic.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Is it would be positively apocalyptic to reign in the all-powerful unelected fourth branch of government the framers conveniently forgot to list in the constitution. Or to prevent Congress from creating executive branch entities that exercise the powers of all three branches of government. The SEC can make rules, sue you for violating them, and then adjudicate your violation, all under one roof. Pretty sure that’s exactly how Congress intended separation of powers to work!
  - xxpor 6y ago
    >adjudicate your violation, all under one roof. You still have Article III remedies in that case. If the extreme version of non-delegation took hold, it would be the end of all rational regulation. Do you REALLY want Congress writing technical documents about effective isotropic radiated power? Or the shape of curb ramps?
    - rayiner 6y ago
      I don’t see how having article III remedies addresses the separation of powers issue. It just means you can kinda maybe fix up the damage afterward. I think it’s fair to ask how far a non-delegation principle should go. There is clearly a continuum between legislation and enforcement discretion. But does that mean we should have no non-delegation principle at all? Is there a definable middle ground between Congress leaving it to executive discretion address technical minutea and Congress delegating oversight over entire sections of the economy to unelected bodies that can serve as judge, jury, and executioner? There are ways to maintain an administrative state without stuffing everything into the executive branch: https://www.theregreview.org/2019/12/18/rappaport-stronger-separation-powers-administrative-agencies/ https://www.theregreview.org/2019/12/18/rappaport-stronger-s...

x3ro 6y ago

This is a strawman. The argument wasn't that no left-leaning people would treat things as property, but that most conservatives would. As such, you're not attacking the actual argument with your point.

pc86 6y ago
It's not a strawman at all, as the original statement is clearly setting up the flip side of that argument - that left-leaning justices are less likely to do so.
- Talanes 6y ago
  Well, even then, showing one left-leaning justice with pro-property stances doesn't actually disprove that argument. Less likely things still happen some of the time.

grasshopperpurp 6y ago

I'm no expert on RBG, but I always pegged her as a Neo-Lib, rather than a Leftist.

cultus 6y ago
This is really an important distinction. Social issues like gay marriage and things like this are completely orthogonal. The Democratic Party as a whole is very much neoliberal or liberal as opposed to left. Liberal judges are much the same.
- pessimizer 6y ago
  Both parties are liberal. Republicans deviate from liberalism when pandering to their religious base, and Democrats deviate from liberalism when adding to the social safety net and labor rights, pandering to their left base. Neither party takes their deviations from liberalism seriously, and both parties have an interest in not resolving those (wedge) issues to keep voters from drifting to the other party.
- neves 6y ago
  The Democratic Party would be considered center-right in any other country of the world, but the USA.
  - drstewart 6y ago
    The DNC would be center right in Saudi Arabia? By what metric? What is with the ridiculous hyperbole that's so common when talking about America on the internet, especially by non-Americans? Talk about "American exceptionalism" - just in a different way.
    - typon 6y ago
      I think OP implied "any democratic western nation".
      - tathougies 6y ago
        Ah right, the soft ethno-nationalism of implying that the only 'real countries' are the western democratic ones.... great...

xxpor 6y ago

Everyone freaks out about social issues with SCOTUS (which is understandable), but their real impact is on economics. The destruction they've laid on the labor movement and help for big businesses is immense. Just look at the commentary around overturning Chevron deference and non-delegation. Absolutely apocalyptic.

rayiner 6y ago
Is it would be positively apocalyptic to reign in the all-powerful unelected fourth branch of government the framers conveniently forgot to list in the constitution. Or to prevent Congress from creating executive branch entities that exercise the powers of all three branches of government. The SEC can make rules, sue you for violating them, and then adjudicate your violation, all under one roof. Pretty sure that’s exactly how Congress intended separation of powers to work!
- xxpor 6y ago
  >adjudicate your violation, all under one roof. You still have Article III remedies in that case. If the extreme version of non-delegation took hold, it would be the end of all rational regulation. Do you REALLY want Congress writing technical documents about effective isotropic radiated power? Or the shape of curb ramps?
  - rayiner 6y ago
    I don’t see how having article III remedies addresses the separation of powers issue. It just means you can kinda maybe fix up the damage afterward. I think it’s fair to ask how far a non-delegation principle should go. There is clearly a continuum between legislation and enforcement discretion. But does that mean we should have no non-delegation principle at all? Is there a definable middle ground between Congress leaving it to executive discretion address technical minutea and Congress delegating oversight over entire sections of the economy to unelected bodies that can serve as judge, jury, and executioner? There are ways to maintain an administrative state without stuffing everything into the executive branch: https://www.theregreview.org/2019/12/18/rappaport-stronger-separation-powers-administrative-agencies/ https://www.theregreview.org/2019/12/18/rappaport-stronger-s...