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> The problem is that it's so cheap to make new things that recycling is almost never cost effective. I think I lost faith in the concept (at least in the curre

> The problem is that it's so cheap to make new things that recycling is almost never cost effective. I think I lost faith in the concept (at least in the current economic climate) right about the time I found out that old glass isn't re-melted for use as new glass items, it's just smashed up and used as aggregate for road beds. Yes, this is correct, although, it is also important to note that the reason why plastic is so "cheap" is because the externalities of it are not captured in the price. To put this in a different perspective, it is best to think of plastic as having a price that is below its costs. Plastic today has a low price. At the same time, the world is becoming filled with it. This accumulation is developing severe and systemic long term consequences. Reverting the damage is extremely difficult, expensive, and some damage may be irreversible, such as the loss of life and ecosystems. The externalities produced by plastics can be seen as a form of long term debt. In this way, it makes it clear that plastic is not all that cheap. In fact, it's quite expensive. So how can we alter this behavior? I'll venture on my own here by suggesting a similar proposal by Professor Nordhaus and his book The Climate Casino, which is to capture the cost of the externalities into the price through the use of taxation. Carbon taxes is the most supported form of reducing carbon emissions by economists. I wouldn't be surprised if the same support exists for reducing our plastic production. If the production of plastic is taxed at the bottom of the supply chain, thus making it more costly compared to alternative materials, then we should expect an automatic market restructure that will naturally phase it out.

animal_spirits 6y ago
I like the idea of carbon taxes in principle, however I'm afraid of public revolt against such taxes if it were introduced in practice. Hopefully I'm wrong but I don't think you can convince large swaths of the population and the immense private companies that control every aspect of daily life will willingly accept these as an added cost, but chaos instead and worse realities beyond that. Maybe we do trial runs of these taxes or something? Has that been done before? A/B testing on public tax money?
- foofoo4u 6y ago
  This is a good point you are bringing up. There will naturally be push back. It is in our natural self-interest, and especially the self-interest of corporations, to not have to pay more. I did not mention this in my comment, but I will have you know that Professor Nordhaus is equally supportive of cap-and-trade. They are both equally effective in his eyes if executed to their potential. Which one is best is dependent on the country and its culture. For instance, Americans are particularly sensitive to rising taxation proposals than their European counterparts. Given this, it may be challenging to pass a carbon tax in the United States. It may be easier to have a cap-and-trade policy passed instead. It's nice to know we have this swift alternative, especially in this time of urgency. But something to consider is that the institutions needed to implement and support cap-and-trade are either non-existent or immature within the United States. Execution may be poor as a result. A carbon tax, however, will likely have greater success given tax institutions are well established here. Although American Conservatives are more resistant to the idea of rising taxation than their Liberal counterparts, know though that a portion of them do believe global warming is an issue that should be addressed. Given this, I believe a carbon tax or cap-and-trade is a winning strategy to win them over versus the popular proposals on the left, which is to reduce emissions through the means of overt regulation or government-owned projects.
  - animal_spirits 6y ago
    Interesting. Cap and trade sounds similar to a carbon credit system but I think it could work in the US

animal_spirits 6y ago

I like the idea of carbon taxes in principle, however I'm afraid of public revolt against such taxes if it were introduced in practice. Hopefully I'm wrong but I don't think you can convince large swaths of the population and the immense private companies that control every aspect of daily life will willingly accept these as an added cost, but chaos instead and worse realities beyond that. Maybe we do trial runs of these taxes or something? Has that been done before? A/B testing on public tax money?

foofoo4u 6y ago
This is a good point you are bringing up. There will naturally be push back. It is in our natural self-interest, and especially the self-interest of corporations, to not have to pay more. I did not mention this in my comment, but I will have you know that Professor Nordhaus is equally supportive of cap-and-trade. They are both equally effective in his eyes if executed to their potential. Which one is best is dependent on the country and its culture. For instance, Americans are particularly sensitive to rising taxation proposals than their European counterparts. Given this, it may be challenging to pass a carbon tax in the United States. It may be easier to have a cap-and-trade policy passed instead. It's nice to know we have this swift alternative, especially in this time of urgency. But something to consider is that the institutions needed to implement and support cap-and-trade are either non-existent or immature within the United States. Execution may be poor as a result. A carbon tax, however, will likely have greater success given tax institutions are well established here. Although American Conservatives are more resistant to the idea of rising taxation than their Liberal counterparts, know though that a portion of them do believe global warming is an issue that should be addressed. Given this, I believe a carbon tax or cap-and-trade is a winning strategy to win them over versus the popular proposals on the left, which is to reduce emissions through the means of overt regulation or government-owned projects.
- animal_spirits 6y ago
  Interesting. Cap and trade sounds similar to a carbon credit system but I think it could work in the US