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Does this work for you? https://streamable.com/sr9o2s https://streamable.com/sr9o2s Edit: People on this forum need to stop being so cultish. Downvoting this d

Does this work for you? https://streamable.com/sr9o2s https://streamable.com/sr9o2s Edit: People on this forum need to stop being so cultish. Downvoting this doesn’t change the reality that it directly kills your narrative.

mindslight 6y ago
Nope. Trump is an incoherent bullshit generator. He says conflicting things such that his intended audience will take away what they want to hear, but can defend himself having said the exact opposite. The only way to judge him is to look at his results.
GavinMcG 6y ago
No, though it's a better reply to my comment elsewhere in the thread where I said Trump doesn't actually condemn white supremacy. The handful of examples in the video that are post-Charlottesville are a nice start, but they've clearly ended up being lip service. He says "I condemn white supremacy" and then goes back to race-baiting at his rally just days ago. [0] Also, it doesn't kill the narrative. It's entirely consistent with the narrative that Trump lies when it's convenient. [0] https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311481175689568256?s=20 https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311481175689568256?s=20
- bbrree66 6y ago
  See this is what I'm talking about. Can you not see your confirmation bias? 1. Ask for proof 2. Get proof 3. Call it "lip service" This means that no matter what Trump says, you will say its disingenuous. Do you see how that can be problematic?
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    No, I can see what you mean. The problem is with your claim that no matter what he says I'll say it's disingenuous. That's not true. I do have reasons to believe Trump is disingenuous. (And if you don't see those, that's your own confirmation bias at play.) But if Trump consistently refused to say racist things and proactively worked to address racial injustice, I'd absolutely believe those statements! Instead, you've got a huge number of examples of Trump being racist and a handful of examples of him saying the words when a reporter presses him. But where's Trump's Philadelphia speech? What did he have to say about John Lewis's legacy? Where is his leadership on addressing the pain and poverty of Black families?
    - bbrree66 6y ago
      That's literally exactly what happened. Why even ask? What response could you have possibly gotten that would have changed your mind? I have seen a ton of examples where people think trump is being racist, then I see them, and he's clearly not. I am 100% open to changing my mind, racism is terrible. Please provide specific and clear examples. Calling everything racism really weakens the argument. You also provide another example of your clouded judgement: "and a handful of examples of him saying the words when a reporter presses him." This type of thinking shows that you just want to confirm your pre-existing idea that he is a racist. When he then says he is not, you say "oh he really is, he was just saying that because he had to". That means there is no possible thing he can do to change your mind. As I said above, if someone can provide specific examples, and not just of behaviors they don't like but of how they are actually racist, I am more than happy to denounce him. Also, in case you missed it, under Trump (pre-Covid), black unemployment was at an all time low.
      - GavinMcG 6y ago
        I did provide some examples at the end of the post. He could honor people doing racial justice work, rather than attacking them. He could stop stoking fear of immigrants and tell the truth about them, which is that they tend to be more educated and more determined than average. He could insist on full investigations of police violence toward black people, rather than equivocating. But he doesn't actually do substantive work on race. So yeah, I call it lip service.
        bbrree66 6y ago
        Thanks for the response! This really shows the lack of clarity in your thinking. We can review each item quickly: 1. He could honor people doing racial justice work - Does not doing this make someone a racist? Silly. Also, here is a direct quote from February 2020 (see how I use actual evidence) "We’re here with some of the black leaders of our country and — people that are highly respected and people that have done a fantastic job and, for the most part, have been working on this whole situation with me right from the beginning." Does that sound like something a racist would say? 2. He could stop stoking fear of immigrants - This is not a specific example. 3. He could insist on full investigations of police violence toward black people - This isn't the responsibility of the president. If he got involved in police business people would say he is overreaching. This is again a subjective thing you "feel" he could do. The agencies that are supposed to be involved are. I try to stick with concrete facts to base my opinions on. This has been a great example where you really want to think he's racist because of what you see in the media but have so far provided 0 objective evidence for your claim.
- splintercell 6y ago
  The why ask him to denounce it?
  - blackflame7000 6y ago
    Bingo. It doesn’t matter what he says, they just want to keep asking the question anyways to drive division to garner support.
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    I'm not sure, you'd have to ask someone who's asking Trump to denounce something he's clearly committed to. I'm asking about conservative groups who have denounced it. I have some faith that conservatism is not aligned with Trumpery.
    - blackflame7000 6y ago
      For godsakes the Republican party freed the slaves and voted for the civil rights act. It's the democrat party that should have to denounce it's history... except they let people like Ralph Northam continue to govern despite being photographed in a KKK hood. And before you start say "Oh the great switch" the part that's never explained by that bs theory is how one day people who had been fighting for civil right woke up and decided to undo everything they had fought for for the last 100 years. You're being taught to hate people that aren't hateful because then it makes it easier to justify the means of seizing power.
      - dragonwriter 6y ago
        > For godsakes the Republican party freed the slaves and voted for the civil rights act. Civil Rights Acts, many of them, starting in the 19th century; sure, and all that was great. But after that the Republican Party decided to seize on the rift created in the Democratic Party when LBJ also backed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which was essential to it being passed into law, because Republicans didn't have a veto-proof majority backing it) to subsequently, starting particularly in the 1968 Presidential election and continuing thereafter, to target the white racists (particularly concentrated in the South) that were disenchanted with the Democratic Party on that issue, in order to make sure that that split wasn't temporary as it was when the Dixiecrats revolted over Truman's integration of the military. And to do that, they started pandering, and have ever since, to the racism of the disaffected group they were courting.
mason240 6y ago
They ask for proof, and then when you give it try to hide your comment through downvoting. Followed by saying that it doesn't even matter. Very topical example of why these "benevolent censorship" schemes are are worse than the problem they are trying to fix.

mindslight 6y ago

Nope. Trump is an incoherent bullshit generator. He says conflicting things such that his intended audience will take away what they want to hear, but can defend himself having said the exact opposite. The only way to judge him is to look at his results.

GavinMcG 6y ago

No, though it's a better reply to my comment elsewhere in the thread where I said Trump doesn't actually condemn white supremacy. The handful of examples in the video that are post-Charlottesville are a nice start, but they've clearly ended up being lip service. He says "I condemn white supremacy" and then goes back to race-baiting at his rally just days ago. [0] Also, it doesn't kill the narrative. It's entirely consistent with the narrative that Trump lies when it's convenient. [0] https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311481175689568256?s=20 https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1311481175689568256?s=20

bbrree66 6y ago
See this is what I'm talking about. Can you not see your confirmation bias? 1. Ask for proof 2. Get proof 3. Call it "lip service" This means that no matter what Trump says, you will say its disingenuous. Do you see how that can be problematic?
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  No, I can see what you mean. The problem is with your claim that no matter what he says I'll say it's disingenuous. That's not true. I do have reasons to believe Trump is disingenuous. (And if you don't see those, that's your own confirmation bias at play.) But if Trump consistently refused to say racist things and proactively worked to address racial injustice, I'd absolutely believe those statements! Instead, you've got a huge number of examples of Trump being racist and a handful of examples of him saying the words when a reporter presses him. But where's Trump's Philadelphia speech? What did he have to say about John Lewis's legacy? Where is his leadership on addressing the pain and poverty of Black families?
  - bbrree66 6y ago
    That's literally exactly what happened. Why even ask? What response could you have possibly gotten that would have changed your mind? I have seen a ton of examples where people think trump is being racist, then I see them, and he's clearly not. I am 100% open to changing my mind, racism is terrible. Please provide specific and clear examples. Calling everything racism really weakens the argument. You also provide another example of your clouded judgement: "and a handful of examples of him saying the words when a reporter presses him." This type of thinking shows that you just want to confirm your pre-existing idea that he is a racist. When he then says he is not, you say "oh he really is, he was just saying that because he had to". That means there is no possible thing he can do to change your mind. As I said above, if someone can provide specific examples, and not just of behaviors they don't like but of how they are actually racist, I am more than happy to denounce him. Also, in case you missed it, under Trump (pre-Covid), black unemployment was at an all time low.
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      I did provide some examples at the end of the post. He could honor people doing racial justice work, rather than attacking them. He could stop stoking fear of immigrants and tell the truth about them, which is that they tend to be more educated and more determined than average. He could insist on full investigations of police violence toward black people, rather than equivocating. But he doesn't actually do substantive work on race. So yeah, I call it lip service.
      - bbrree66 6y ago
        Thanks for the response! This really shows the lack of clarity in your thinking. We can review each item quickly: 1. He could honor people doing racial justice work - Does not doing this make someone a racist? Silly. Also, here is a direct quote from February 2020 (see how I use actual evidence) "We’re here with some of the black leaders of our country and — people that are highly respected and people that have done a fantastic job and, for the most part, have been working on this whole situation with me right from the beginning." Does that sound like something a racist would say? 2. He could stop stoking fear of immigrants - This is not a specific example. 3. He could insist on full investigations of police violence toward black people - This isn't the responsibility of the president. If he got involved in police business people would say he is overreaching. This is again a subjective thing you "feel" he could do. The agencies that are supposed to be involved are. I try to stick with concrete facts to base my opinions on. This has been a great example where you really want to think he's racist because of what you see in the media but have so far provided 0 objective evidence for your claim.
splintercell 6y ago
The why ask him to denounce it?
- blackflame7000 6y ago
  Bingo. It doesn’t matter what he says, they just want to keep asking the question anyways to drive division to garner support.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  I'm not sure, you'd have to ask someone who's asking Trump to denounce something he's clearly committed to. I'm asking about conservative groups who have denounced it. I have some faith that conservatism is not aligned with Trumpery.
  - blackflame7000 6y ago
    For godsakes the Republican party freed the slaves and voted for the civil rights act. It's the democrat party that should have to denounce it's history... except they let people like Ralph Northam continue to govern despite being photographed in a KKK hood. And before you start say "Oh the great switch" the part that's never explained by that bs theory is how one day people who had been fighting for civil right woke up and decided to undo everything they had fought for for the last 100 years. You're being taught to hate people that aren't hateful because then it makes it easier to justify the means of seizing power.
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > For godsakes the Republican party freed the slaves and voted for the civil rights act. Civil Rights Acts, many of them, starting in the 19th century; sure, and all that was great. But after that the Republican Party decided to seize on the rift created in the Democratic Party when LBJ also backed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (which was essential to it being passed into law, because Republicans didn't have a veto-proof majority backing it) to subsequently, starting particularly in the 1968 Presidential election and continuing thereafter, to target the white racists (particularly concentrated in the South) that were disenchanted with the Democratic Party on that issue, in order to make sure that that split wasn't temporary as it was when the Dixiecrats revolted over Truman's integration of the military. And to do that, they started pandering, and have ever since, to the racism of the disaffected group they were courting.

mason240 6y ago

They ask for proof, and then when you give it try to hide your comment through downvoting. Followed by saying that it doesn't even matter. Very topical example of why these "benevolent censorship" schemes are are worse than the problem they are trying to fix.