4 ms·

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The Julian Assange saga is about hacking, privacy, three-letter-agency overreach in the tech sphere, etc. I think it's

by Timpy 6y ago

I don't think that's a fair comparison. The Julian Assange saga is about hacking, privacy, three-letter-agency overreach in the tech sphere, etc. I think it's the "hacker" half of the "hacker-politics" that makes it on topic here. The story is developing over time; sure some non-newsworthy Assange articles get posted here sometimes but in general I don't think it's incongruous with HN.

krapp 6y ago
>I don't think that's a fair comparison. The Julian Assange saga is about hacking, privacy, three-letter-agency overreach in the tech sphere, etc. And every possible iteration of that has been hashed and rehashed to death at this point - Assange is a hero and should be pardoned, Assange is a traitor and should be punished, Assange is guilty of sexual assault, Assange was framed, Assange is being tortured, the entire trial is a farce, Assange is a Russian stooge, Assange is a CIA stooge, Assange is a hologram meant to distract you from Epstein, insert rant about the American military industrial complex and war crimes here. Is there so much new and interesting intellectual content to be gleaned from Assange's hearing that we need to milk it every single day?
- Timpy 6y ago
  The grandparent to my post was talking about politics, not repetition. I shouldn't have strayed and conceded that it's repetitive because this is my point: hacker-politics is on topic here.
  - krapp 6y ago
    "hacker politics" is in the eye of the beholder. There's no clear delineation between "politics" and "hacker politics" in an age when Facebook can be used to organize a genocide. One could say that many Trump stories are "hacker politics" because of Trump's unprecedented use of social media, and the effect that social media as a whole has had on the American political landscape since his election, leading to the "fake news" phenomenon and controversies about the influence of social media platforms and their ability to manipulate public perception. The investigations into Trump's relationship with Russia, Wikileaks and the DNC leaks certainly touch on "hacker" themes and Assange specifically. And a strong case could be made that stories about gender and racial disparity in tech and programming count as "hacker politics." Yet again, many such stories are more likely to be flagged than anything to do with Assange exclusively. "hacker politics" is not the standard actually being applied here, rather it's aggregate political bias. Do you think a story about, say, an Antifa or BLM hacking group would stand on technical merit alone?
    - chriswarbo 6y ago
      Stories about "Trump's unprecedented use of social media" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make "Trump stories" in general on-topic. Stories about "the effect that social media as a whole has had on the American political landscape" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make US politics in general on-topic. Stories about "the influence of social media platforms and their ability to manipulate public perception" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories about "fake news" in general on-topic. Stories about the Wikileaks organisation could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories derived from the contents of particular leaks on-topic. Stories about the DNC data leak could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories derived from the contents of the DNC data leak on-topic. Stories about gender and racial disparity in tech and programming could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories about gender and racial disparity in general on-topic. Stories about an Antifa or BLM hacking group could be on-topic. That doesn't neccessarily make stories about Antifa or BLM in general on-topic. Personally, I don't find this distinction particularly hard. As for "bias", I've seen sentiments on this site that could broadly be categorised as Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, etc. Of course, there is a heavy political bias, but I'd say it's generally just "US-centric" (which is to be expected, as this is a US site); e.g. as a UK citizen I find some of the comments very bizarre (usually anything involving guns, healthcare, abortion, etc.). It can still be interesting, and if not I can just collapse the thread or close the page.
- dang 6y ago
  Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064097, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22211437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22211437, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22362035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22362035. People accuse us just as often (more often, rather) of suppressing Assange stories. You're overgeneralizing based on the special case of the extradition trial. Arguably that was over-covered here, but it was hardly because of the sinister situation you're imagining. We just weren't following it very closely. The principles of how we moderate political topics on HN are well established: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=follow-up%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... The principles of how people arrive at inaccurate generalizations about it are also well established: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=notice%20dislike%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... If there's any aspect of this problem that hasn't been thoroughly discussed and answered at those links, I'd like to know what it is.

by Timpy 6y ago

krapp 6y ago

>I don't think that's a fair comparison. The Julian Assange saga is about hacking, privacy, three-letter-agency overreach in the tech sphere, etc. And every possible iteration of that has been hashed and rehashed to death at this point - Assange is a hero and should be pardoned, Assange is a traitor and should be punished, Assange is guilty of sexual assault, Assange was framed, Assange is being tortured, the entire trial is a farce, Assange is a Russian stooge, Assange is a CIA stooge, Assange is a hologram meant to distract you from Epstein, insert rant about the American military industrial complex and war crimes here. Is there so much new and interesting intellectual content to be gleaned from Assange's hearing that we need to milk it every single day?

Timpy 6y ago
The grandparent to my post was talking about politics, not repetition. I shouldn't have strayed and conceded that it's repetitive because this is my point: hacker-politics is on topic here.
- krapp 6y ago
  "hacker politics" is in the eye of the beholder. There's no clear delineation between "politics" and "hacker politics" in an age when Facebook can be used to organize a genocide. One could say that many Trump stories are "hacker politics" because of Trump's unprecedented use of social media, and the effect that social media as a whole has had on the American political landscape since his election, leading to the "fake news" phenomenon and controversies about the influence of social media platforms and their ability to manipulate public perception. The investigations into Trump's relationship with Russia, Wikileaks and the DNC leaks certainly touch on "hacker" themes and Assange specifically. And a strong case could be made that stories about gender and racial disparity in tech and programming count as "hacker politics." Yet again, many such stories are more likely to be flagged than anything to do with Assange exclusively. "hacker politics" is not the standard actually being applied here, rather it's aggregate political bias. Do you think a story about, say, an Antifa or BLM hacking group would stand on technical merit alone?
  - chriswarbo 6y ago
    Stories about "Trump's unprecedented use of social media" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make "Trump stories" in general on-topic. Stories about "the effect that social media as a whole has had on the American political landscape" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make US politics in general on-topic. Stories about "the influence of social media platforms and their ability to manipulate public perception" could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories about "fake news" in general on-topic. Stories about the Wikileaks organisation could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories derived from the contents of particular leaks on-topic. Stories about the DNC data leak could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories derived from the contents of the DNC data leak on-topic. Stories about gender and racial disparity in tech and programming could be on-topic. That doesn't necessarily make stories about gender and racial disparity in general on-topic. Stories about an Antifa or BLM hacking group could be on-topic. That doesn't neccessarily make stories about Antifa or BLM in general on-topic. Personally, I don't find this distinction particularly hard. As for "bias", I've seen sentiments on this site that could broadly be categorised as Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Green, etc. Of course, there is a heavy political bias, but I'd say it's generally just "US-centric" (which is to be expected, as this is a US site); e.g. as a UK citizen I find some of the comments very bizarre (usually anything involving guns, healthcare, abortion, etc.). It can still be interesting, and if not I can just collapse the thread or close the page.
dang 6y ago
Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064097 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20064097, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22211437 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22211437, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22362035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22362035. People accuse us just as often (more often, rather) of suppressing Assange stories. You're overgeneralizing based on the special case of the extradition trial. Arguably that was over-covered here, but it was hardly because of the sinister situation you're imagining. We just weren't following it very closely. The principles of how we moderate political topics on HN are well established: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=follow-up%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... The principles of how people arrive at inaccurate generalizations about it are also well established: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=notice%20dislike%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=likeliest%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... If there's any aspect of this problem that hasn't been thoroughly discussed and answered at those links, I'd like to know what it is.