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> I'm in agreement with you that this needs to be fixed. However the fact that these problems exist in the US but not elsewhere suggests that it also has very l

by jahaja 6y ago

> I'm in agreement with you that this needs to be fixed. However the fact that these problems exist in the US but not elsewhere suggests that it also has very little to do with "free market ideologies", and your insistence to the contrary regardless of the empirical evidence suggests that your approach to this is purely driven by ideology. This is absurd. That the US is a country where business, markets, profits have been prioritized over people is blatantly obvious for everyone that's not a free market fundamentalist where every single instance of a negative outcome needs to be excused by either "it's not free enough" or "other's are actually also rather free", or ofc, put the blame on the government. You also jump onto the wording of course. I mean it in a general sense, free market, capitalist, market oriented society that applies it to much more spheres of society than other countries. So give me a break that I'm the one "purely driven by ideology" when you're writing with a convert's fervour. > regardless of the empirical evidence And the differences in worker benefits and welfare (etc...) is not empirical evidence of a society that's gotten way too hooked on capitalism? > I write software for claims processing and healthcare pricing systems for a living In a well functioning society your job should not exist.

bhupy 6y ago
> This is absurd. That the US is a country where business, markets, profits have been prioritized over people is blatantly obvious for everyone that's not a free market fundamentalist where every single instance of a negative outcome needs to be excused by either "it's not free enough" or "other's are actually also rather free", or ofc, put the blame on the government. This is a bit of word salad, but 1) these traits exist in so many other advanced wealthy countries that pointing it out is irrelevant, and 2) the US is a mixed economy -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States > I mean it in a general sense, free market, capitalist, market oriented society that applies it to much more spheres of society than other countries. Yes, and all of those countries I listed out are "free market" "capitalist" "market oriented" societies. Switzerland -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland Singapore -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore Taiwan -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan Japan -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan New Zealand -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand Australia -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Australia Belgium -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belgium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belgium Canada -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada etc > And the differences in worker benefits and welfare (etc...) is not empirical evidence of a society that's gotten way too hooked on capitalism? Many countries with strong unions have seen a similar or even greater decline in labor share of income than the US. The US is not really much different than any other advanced economy on that front: https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/featured%20insights/employment%20and%20growth/a%20new%20look%20at%20the%20declining%20labor%20share%20of%20income%20in%20the%20united%20states/mgi-a-new-look-at-the-declining-labor-share-of-income-in-the-united-states.ashx https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/featured%20insight... (page 5). In the US, labor’s share of income is less than France, about the same as Germany, and more than Spain. It’s significantly higher than Sweden, which has robust unions. Moreover, nearly all the decline in labor’s share of income happened between 2000 and today (page 6). The decrease was very slight from 1947 to 2000. But unions stopped being a significant force in the US long before 2000. > In a well functioning society your job should not exist. This reaction of yours is illuminating, because it shows how little you know about how healthcare even works. I don't work for an insurance company, I write software that's used by insurance companies to process claims and price fees. This is an abstract actuarial function that's necessary regardless of whether a private entity or a public entity is the insurer. Public government insurers do not manually process claims by hand one-by-one. Ditto pricing, I work on generating fee schedules. You know where else fee schedules are used? Medicare and Medicaid. Their actuaries use software similar to what I work on to model risk and determine what premiums (or tax contributions) should be, and how much physicians should be paid.
- jahaja 6y ago
  Your just being deliberately obtuse as always. I make a statement that countries have realized that the free market is harmful in certain spheres and you go on about the economy as a whole instead, which I have never claimed to not be capitalist/market economies. I make a statement about the vast difference in worker benefits and welfare and you go on about the labor's share of income instead, which I have never claimed to be higher. > I write software that's used by insurance companies to process claims and price fees Insurance companies should play no role in healthcare, and they certainly don't where I live.
  - bhupy 6y ago
    > Your just being deliberately obtuse as always When you’re backed into a corner, you appear to resort to name calling and hostility, as always. I’m directly addressing your arguments by showing you that reality is a lot more complicated than you seem to think, by the numbers. Your entire world view neatly fits into a packaged ideology that only seems to reconcile with a warped version of how the US actually works (as well as other countries). > Insurance companies should play no role in healthcare, and they certainly don't where I live. I understand you feel that way. What I’m saying is that my software is used by your government. My job will exist regardless of who is actually paying for healthcare, because I’m not in the business of financing, I’m in the business of claims processing, provider payment, and automated price generation. These are functions that government payers also use to pay physicians and to drive their per capita costs down also. It will always be a part of the value chain. Also, private insurance companies play a role in healthcare in many prosperous countries, including Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
    - jahaja 6y ago
      > When you’re backed into a corner Don't flatter yourself. > I’m directly addressing your arguments You haven't directly addressed anything. I just gave you two very clear examples where you just change the subject to something I've never claimed instead of answering the questions/arguments. > It will always be a part of the value chain. Alright, fair enough. Good for you.

by jahaja 6y ago

bhupy 6y ago

> This is absurd. That the US is a country where business, markets, profits have been prioritized over people is blatantly obvious for everyone that's not a free market fundamentalist where every single instance of a negative outcome needs to be excused by either "it's not free enough" or "other's are actually also rather free", or ofc, put the blame on the government. This is a bit of word salad, but 1) these traits exist in so many other advanced wealthy countries that pointing it out is irrelevant, and 2) the US is a mixed economy -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States > I mean it in a general sense, free market, capitalist, market oriented society that applies it to much more spheres of society than other countries. Yes, and all of those countries I listed out are "free market" "capitalist" "market oriented" societies. Switzerland -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland Singapore -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Singapore Taiwan -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Taiwan Japan -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Japan New Zealand -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand Australia -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Australia Belgium -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belgium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Belgium Canada -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada etc > And the differences in worker benefits and welfare (etc...) is not empirical evidence of a society that's gotten way too hooked on capitalism? Many countries with strong unions have seen a similar or even greater decline in labor share of income than the US. The US is not really much different than any other advanced economy on that front: https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/featured%20insights/employment%20and%20growth/a%20new%20look%20at%20the%20declining%20labor%20share%20of%20income%20in%20the%20united%20states/mgi-a-new-look-at-the-declining-labor-share-of-income-in-the-united-states.ashx https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/featured%20insight... (page 5). In the US, labor’s share of income is less than France, about the same as Germany, and more than Spain. It’s significantly higher than Sweden, which has robust unions. Moreover, nearly all the decline in labor’s share of income happened between 2000 and today (page 6). The decrease was very slight from 1947 to 2000. But unions stopped being a significant force in the US long before 2000. > In a well functioning society your job should not exist. This reaction of yours is illuminating, because it shows how little you know about how healthcare even works. I don't work for an insurance company, I write software that's used by insurance companies to process claims and price fees. This is an abstract actuarial function that's necessary regardless of whether a private entity or a public entity is the insurer. Public government insurers do not manually process claims by hand one-by-one. Ditto pricing, I work on generating fee schedules. You know where else fee schedules are used? Medicare and Medicaid. Their actuaries use software similar to what I work on to model risk and determine what premiums (or tax contributions) should be, and how much physicians should be paid.

jahaja 6y ago
Your just being deliberately obtuse as always. I make a statement that countries have realized that the free market is harmful in certain spheres and you go on about the economy as a whole instead, which I have never claimed to not be capitalist/market economies. I make a statement about the vast difference in worker benefits and welfare and you go on about the labor's share of income instead, which I have never claimed to be higher. > I write software that's used by insurance companies to process claims and price fees Insurance companies should play no role in healthcare, and they certainly don't where I live.
- bhupy 6y ago
  > Your just being deliberately obtuse as always When you’re backed into a corner, you appear to resort to name calling and hostility, as always. I’m directly addressing your arguments by showing you that reality is a lot more complicated than you seem to think, by the numbers. Your entire world view neatly fits into a packaged ideology that only seems to reconcile with a warped version of how the US actually works (as well as other countries). > Insurance companies should play no role in healthcare, and they certainly don't where I live. I understand you feel that way. What I’m saying is that my software is used by your government. My job will exist regardless of who is actually paying for healthcare, because I’m not in the business of financing, I’m in the business of claims processing, provider payment, and automated price generation. These are functions that government payers also use to pay physicians and to drive their per capita costs down also. It will always be a part of the value chain. Also, private insurance companies play a role in healthcare in many prosperous countries, including Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
  - jahaja 6y ago
    > When you’re backed into a corner Don't flatter yourself. > I’m directly addressing your arguments You haven't directly addressed anything. I just gave you two very clear examples where you just change the subject to something I've never claimed instead of answering the questions/arguments. > It will always be a part of the value chain. Alright, fair enough. Good for you.