4 ms·

are we actually sure of what is being reported??... he has miss-reported before

by shareme 16y ago

ggeorgovassilis 16y ago
About some files in the JDK copied [1] from Sun/Oracle. I think that was, to put it in Wikipedia terms "original research" and that's always risky. Florian was right about the files but his conclusions about the gravity of those findings were wrong as they were not shipped in the end-product. [1] http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-evidence-supports-oracles-case.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-evidence-support...
tzs 16y ago
This is ridiculous. The author has a long and excellent record fighting against software patents. On a couple of occasions his analysis may have been an error, but I don't think he's ever mis-reported anything. You comment is just FUD.
- orangecat 16y ago
  There's a good chance that he's a paid anti-Google shill: http://lwn.net/Articles/434587/ http://lwn.net/Articles/434587/. Note that in this case he immediately jumps from the verdict to "Android is doomed", when the case had nothing to do with Android specifically except that it uses Linux, as do millions of other products.
  - jstedfast 16y ago
    How does that prove he's an anti-Google "shill", exactly?
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  I disagree. I'm also looking for a better source. Florian Mueller has a very bad reputation and was the guy behind "Boycott Novell".
  - tzs 16y ago
    Roy Schestowitz is the guy behind "Boycott Novell". The only connection Florian Mueller has to Boycott Novell is that Boycott Novell calls him "Microsoft Florian" and constantly accuses him of working for Microsoft.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      Ah, you're right. Thank you for the correction, I had conflated the two, probably because I hear them both maligned often, or maybe I read another incorrect statement some time ago. Nevertheless, Florian Mueller is still a controversial figure and has incorrectly reported in the past (see here: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1939165/mueller-forced-android-copyright-infringement-claims http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1939165/mueller-for... ). Something like groklaw would be better, but the story isn't showing up there at the moment.
      - kenjackson 16y ago
        The thing with Florian is that he's never always on one side of the story. Unlike Groklaw, where they openly admit to being in pain if they have to side with MS on a case.
        burgerbrain 16y ago
        Actually, it's pretty trivial to figure out what side of something Florian is going to be on: just reverse whatever opinion Groklaw happens to voice. Seriously, check out that guys HN account and look at his comments on any article having anything to do with Groklaw. Totally unhealthy obsession.
        kenjackson 16y ago
        So you're saying that he supports i4i in this patent case against MS? I find that hard to believe, since MS is trying to weaken SW patents, which is something he has been trying to do for a while. I don't think its as simple as you think.
- naner 16y ago
  > The author has a long and excellent record fighting against software patents. Based on what? All we have is your (and his) assertion. I had trouble finding any history at all of this guy with "25 years software industry experience". And every single one of his blog posts portrays FOSS software as an unreliable IP minefield. Even if that's not the specific legal issue at hand. In my opinion this looks like he is paid to smear FOSS.
  - jstedfast 16y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Mueller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Mueller According to Wikipedia: "In 2004, Müller received the support of corporate sponsors 1&1, Red Hat and MySQL for launching NoSoftwarePatents.com, which opposed the European Commission's proposed directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions.[8] Following several years of intensive lobbying by many parties, this proposed directive was rejected by the European Parliament on July 6, 2005, with 648 out of 680 votes cast.[9][10] For his political activities, Müller received several awards in 2005. A leading publication for intellectual property lawyers, "Managing Intellectual Property", counted Müller - such as the Chinese vice premier Wu Yi - among the "top 50 most influential people in intellectual property"[11][12] (renominated in 2006[13]). IT-focused website Silicon.com listed him among the Silicon Agenda Setters.[14] A jury of EU-focused weekly newspaper "European Voice" elected Müller as one of the "EV50 Europeans of the Year 2005", and handed him the "EU Campaigner of the Year 2005" award.[15] Jointly with the FFII, Müller received the "CNET Networks UK Technology Award" in the "Outstanding Contribution to Software Development" category.[16]"
yuhong 16y ago
Another example of this: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110420141724403 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110420141724403

are we actually sure of what is being reported??... he has miss-reported before

by shareme 16y ago

are we actually sure of what is being reported??... he has miss-reported before

About some files in the JDK copied [1] from Sun/Oracle. I think that was, to put it in Wikipedia terms "original research" and that's always risky. Florian was right about the files but his conclusions about the gravity of those findings were wrong as they were not shipped in the end-product. [1] http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-evidence-supports-oracles-case.html http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-evidence-support...

tzs 16y ago

This is ridiculous. The author has a long and excellent record fighting against software patents. On a couple of occasions his analysis may have been an error, but I don't think he's ever mis-reported anything. You comment is just FUD.

orangecat 16y ago
There's a good chance that he's a paid anti-Google shill: http://lwn.net/Articles/434587/ http://lwn.net/Articles/434587/. Note that in this case he immediately jumps from the verdict to "Android is doomed", when the case had nothing to do with Android specifically except that it uses Linux, as do millions of other products.
- jstedfast 16y ago
  How does that prove he's an anti-Google "shill", exactly?
cookiecaper 16y ago
I disagree. I'm also looking for a better source. Florian Mueller has a very bad reputation and was the guy behind "Boycott Novell".
- tzs 16y ago
  Roy Schestowitz is the guy behind "Boycott Novell". The only connection Florian Mueller has to Boycott Novell is that Boycott Novell calls him "Microsoft Florian" and constantly accuses him of working for Microsoft.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    Ah, you're right. Thank you for the correction, I had conflated the two, probably because I hear them both maligned often, or maybe I read another incorrect statement some time ago. Nevertheless, Florian Mueller is still a controversial figure and has incorrectly reported in the past (see here: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1939165/mueller-forced-android-copyright-infringement-claims http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1939165/mueller-for... ). Something like groklaw would be better, but the story isn't showing up there at the moment.
    - kenjackson 16y ago
      The thing with Florian is that he's never always on one side of the story. Unlike Groklaw, where they openly admit to being in pain if they have to side with MS on a case.
      - burgerbrain 16y ago
        Actually, it's pretty trivial to figure out what side of something Florian is going to be on: just reverse whatever opinion Groklaw happens to voice. Seriously, check out that guys HN account and look at his comments on any article having anything to do with Groklaw. Totally unhealthy obsession.
        kenjackson 16y ago
        So you're saying that he supports i4i in this patent case against MS? I find that hard to believe, since MS is trying to weaken SW patents, which is something he has been trying to do for a while. I don't think its as simple as you think.
naner 16y ago
> The author has a long and excellent record fighting against software patents. Based on what? All we have is your (and his) assertion. I had trouble finding any history at all of this guy with "25 years software industry experience". And every single one of his blog posts portrays FOSS software as an unreliable IP minefield. Even if that's not the specific legal issue at hand. In my opinion this looks like he is paid to smear FOSS.
- jstedfast 16y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Mueller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Mueller According to Wikipedia: "In 2004, Müller received the support of corporate sponsors 1&1, Red Hat and MySQL for launching NoSoftwarePatents.com, which opposed the European Commission's proposed directive on the patentability of computer-implemented inventions.[8] Following several years of intensive lobbying by many parties, this proposed directive was rejected by the European Parliament on July 6, 2005, with 648 out of 680 votes cast.[9][10] For his political activities, Müller received several awards in 2005. A leading publication for intellectual property lawyers, "Managing Intellectual Property", counted Müller - such as the Chinese vice premier Wu Yi - among the "top 50 most influential people in intellectual property"[11][12] (renominated in 2006[13]). IT-focused website Silicon.com listed him among the Silicon Agenda Setters.[14] A jury of EU-focused weekly newspaper "European Voice" elected Müller as one of the "EV50 Europeans of the Year 2005", and handed him the "EU Campaigner of the Year 2005" award.[15] Jointly with the FFII, Müller received the "CNET Networks UK Technology Award" in the "Outstanding Contribution to Software Development" category.[16]"

yuhong 16y ago

Another example of this: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110420141724403 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110420141724403