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I can't find anything on your website or the app's website listing your qualifications. How are you qualified to advise people on how to fix their depression?

I can't find anything on your website or the app's website listing your qualifications. How are you qualified to advise people on how to fix their depression? What medical studies and approval has your app been through? If this article persuades even a single person to ditch their prescribed medication in favour of your app—after all who would want to end up in a straight-jacket—and that person then harms themselves, how are you going to deal with that?

orange8 6y ago
Qualifications schwamifications... Where in the website did the app claim to "fix depression"? From what I can see, it helps you identify and release negative emotions.
- aaronbasssett 6y ago
  It's literally the title of this post.
  - orange8 6y ago
    He built an app to fix HIS depression. The apps website does not make any such claims.
    - aaronbasssett 6y ago
      > It’s an online app that can help you tap into your hidden emotions and release them so they no longer influence your behaviour or cause depressive symptoms. Did you read the article at all? Here is a quote where they state the app can stop the cause of your depressive symptoms. That clear cut enough for you? Or do you still want to be wilfully obtuse?
      - tway214 6y ago
        Do you also ask anyone who writes a dieting cookbook for their medical degree? The author does not state anywhere that the user should stop taking their medication or stop getting treated by professionals.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        aaronbasssett 6y ago
        > The doc recommended I up the dosage, but I could see this would eventually lead me to a straitjacket. That sounds like they're making a pretty strong argument for stopping taking the Doctor recommended medication.
      - thomquaid 6y ago
        You're being obtuse, not him. /A cause/ of depressive symptoms is not the same as /the cause/ of (your) depressive symptoms.
      - orange8 6y ago
        Nobody owns the intellectual property to "the cure of depression". Are you suggesting that the only way to cure depression is by paying a medical professional using only scientifically backed and proven methods and procedures some money? Are you in the industry yourself? A hobby can cure depression. A better diet can cure depression. More exercise can cure depression. Finding purpose can cure depression. Painting can cure depression. Dancing can cure depression. The heavens forbid someone start a dancing class that claims to help release negative emotions without a medical degree and scientific research to back it up.
        aaronbasssett 6y ago
        And if a hobbyist, dietician, personal trainer, life coach, painter, or choreographer was telling people to stop taking their perscribed medications before they end up in a straight-jacket and instead just diet/exercise/paint/dance/etc then yes I think those people would be just as culpable for any harm they caused. There's a difference between "these things might help the symptoms of depression" and "Doctor telling you to take life saving medication, what if it makes you crazy? I have no evidence that it will, but I feel like it might. You should use this app instead"
        orange8 6y ago
        Lol! Looks like you've recruited your twitter army to bring in the down-votes. Don't care. I think it is immoral to try and gatekeep something as essential and personal as our emotions for the sake of "Psychologist/Psychiatrist who study CBT" for five years. And learn to tell the difference between 1) someone sharing his personal story about depression on a blog 2) Someone creating an app inspired by that experience. And accusing him of "encouraging people to stop taking their medication" is borderline character assassination. Where did you even get that?
        acituan 6y ago
        > A hobby can cure depression. A better diet can cure depression. More exercise can cure depression We are not talking about a mere feeling down here. Depression is a clinically defined term with specific criteria, and no nothing you can fix with a new hobby is clinical depression, and yes if you claim to be fixing it with any tool which you make available to public you need to be a licensed professional. > Nobody owns the intellectual property to "the cure of depression". Luckily intellectual property protection is not the only protection we have around medical interventions. No one has the intellectual property to tonsillectomy either, and you're free to try operating on your own, but you will get into trouble real fast if you advertised you doing it to public as a fix to some ailment.
  - rdiddly 6y ago
    It says fix "my" depression, neatly sidestepping any question of what other people should do and who's responsible for it.
    - vector_spaces 6y ago
      Unfortunately it's not quite so neat. In the United States, the FDA considers personal anecdata forbidden when it comes to the sale and marketing of dietary supplements -- for example, statements such as "This product cured/helped/relieved/improved/fixed my/my aunt's/someone's diabetes" (on a product label, website, or even verbally by a salesperson or retail clerk in a store) are strictly forbidden as they may be construed to be medical advice This is covered by the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994. I don't know if DSHEA covers websites/apps/digital products -- probably not -- but I would be very surprised if there wasn't similar legislation covering websites, apps, and digital products Note that DSHEA does prescribe language for safely discussing the effects of non-drug therapies. It's called structure-function language -- OP should definitely read up on it (better: talk to a lawyer versed in these matters, and note that I am not a lawyer, none of the above is intended as legal advice)
      - zoozla 6y ago
        Thanks for this, I'll definitely look into it.
op03 6y ago
Think about why organized religion has survived for thousands of years all over the world. You will reach this inequality sooner or later - Number of ppl with qualifications to help the suffering < Number of people suffering So keep asking the questions, but also be aware of the values of those 2 variables in your neck of the woods. And when there is a gap expect all kinds of gap filling.
audiometry 6y ago
You sound foolish and pompous. And you speak from an arrogance that medicine is a definitive solution to depression and depression-like problems. But that's not necessarily true. Maybe it helped you. It certainly doesn't help all others. It partially helped me. But eventually a bunch of other cognitive practices (none of which are 'approved by medical studies') became a much better cocktail of long-term solutions. This app appears to be just another tool that adults can use to find the custom solution that works for them. I don't see anywhere that he's recommending stop taking SSRIs and use his app exclusively. He's explaining his own journey.
zoozla 6y ago
Your comment deserves an honest reply. If someone hurts themselves because of something that I've said or done, and there is a chance it might, I will hurt, I will mourn and I will do time if it comes to that. But the risk of this won't stop me from looking for better answers to these problems because the answers we have right now aren't good enough. And if a thousand people avoid harming themselves because of this approach and one still does, is that a failure?
- acituan 6y ago
  > And if a thousand people avoid harming themselves because of this approach and one still does, is that a failure? That’s why we have trials and regulations to assess this risk. Is 1000:1 a good ratio? I don’t know. But I know it is not up to us to make that call. > But the risk of this won't stop me from looking for better answers to these problems because the answers we have right now aren't good enough. Current answers we have for covid is not good enough either but it doesn’t mean we get to experiment willy-nilly in the public space. I admire your self-experimentation and I actually like your tool but you can’t make money out of it while advertising in association with the claim that it fixed your depression. You’re a small enough operation right now that neither FDA or FTC would care much about it, but the very least if you are sincere with your intentions you should put out a bold banner saying “I am not a professional, this is not intended to diagnose cure any problem, if you need help see a professional” everywhere on the site. Also you should be careful with collecting psychometric data, not that it would put you in HIPAA land because you’re not a licensed medical professional, but it is still highly sensitive data so you should be explicit about your data collection.

orange8 6y ago

Qualifications schwamifications... Where in the website did the app claim to "fix depression"? From what I can see, it helps you identify and release negative emotions.

aaronbasssett 6y ago
It's literally the title of this post.
- orange8 6y ago
  He built an app to fix HIS depression. The apps website does not make any such claims.
  - aaronbasssett 6y ago
    > It’s an online app that can help you tap into your hidden emotions and release them so they no longer influence your behaviour or cause depressive symptoms. Did you read the article at all? Here is a quote where they state the app can stop the cause of your depressive symptoms. That clear cut enough for you? Or do you still want to be wilfully obtuse?
    - tway214 6y ago
      Do you also ask anyone who writes a dieting cookbook for their medical degree? The author does not state anywhere that the user should stop taking their medication or stop getting treated by professionals.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - aaronbasssett 6y ago
        > The doc recommended I up the dosage, but I could see this would eventually lead me to a straitjacket. That sounds like they're making a pretty strong argument for stopping taking the Doctor recommended medication.
    - thomquaid 6y ago
      You're being obtuse, not him. /A cause/ of depressive symptoms is not the same as /the cause/ of (your) depressive symptoms.
    - orange8 6y ago
      Nobody owns the intellectual property to "the cure of depression". Are you suggesting that the only way to cure depression is by paying a medical professional using only scientifically backed and proven methods and procedures some money? Are you in the industry yourself? A hobby can cure depression. A better diet can cure depression. More exercise can cure depression. Finding purpose can cure depression. Painting can cure depression. Dancing can cure depression. The heavens forbid someone start a dancing class that claims to help release negative emotions without a medical degree and scientific research to back it up.
      - aaronbasssett 6y ago
        And if a hobbyist, dietician, personal trainer, life coach, painter, or choreographer was telling people to stop taking their perscribed medications before they end up in a straight-jacket and instead just diet/exercise/paint/dance/etc then yes I think those people would be just as culpable for any harm they caused. There's a difference between "these things might help the symptoms of depression" and "Doctor telling you to take life saving medication, what if it makes you crazy? I have no evidence that it will, but I feel like it might. You should use this app instead"
        orange8 6y ago
        Lol! Looks like you've recruited your twitter army to bring in the down-votes. Don't care. I think it is immoral to try and gatekeep something as essential and personal as our emotions for the sake of "Psychologist/Psychiatrist who study CBT" for five years. And learn to tell the difference between 1) someone sharing his personal story about depression on a blog 2) Someone creating an app inspired by that experience. And accusing him of "encouraging people to stop taking their medication" is borderline character assassination. Where did you even get that?
      - acituan 6y ago
        > A hobby can cure depression. A better diet can cure depression. More exercise can cure depression We are not talking about a mere feeling down here. Depression is a clinically defined term with specific criteria, and no nothing you can fix with a new hobby is clinical depression, and yes if you claim to be fixing it with any tool which you make available to public you need to be a licensed professional. > Nobody owns the intellectual property to "the cure of depression". Luckily intellectual property protection is not the only protection we have around medical interventions. No one has the intellectual property to tonsillectomy either, and you're free to try operating on your own, but you will get into trouble real fast if you advertised you doing it to public as a fix to some ailment.
- rdiddly 6y ago
  It says fix "my" depression, neatly sidestepping any question of what other people should do and who's responsible for it.
  - vector_spaces 6y ago
    Unfortunately it's not quite so neat. In the United States, the FDA considers personal anecdata forbidden when it comes to the sale and marketing of dietary supplements -- for example, statements such as "This product cured/helped/relieved/improved/fixed my/my aunt's/someone's diabetes" (on a product label, website, or even verbally by a salesperson or retail clerk in a store) are strictly forbidden as they may be construed to be medical advice This is covered by the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994. I don't know if DSHEA covers websites/apps/digital products -- probably not -- but I would be very surprised if there wasn't similar legislation covering websites, apps, and digital products Note that DSHEA does prescribe language for safely discussing the effects of non-drug therapies. It's called structure-function language -- OP should definitely read up on it (better: talk to a lawyer versed in these matters, and note that I am not a lawyer, none of the above is intended as legal advice)
    - zoozla 6y ago
      Thanks for this, I'll definitely look into it.

op03 6y ago

Think about why organized religion has survived for thousands of years all over the world. You will reach this inequality sooner or later - Number of ppl with qualifications to help the suffering < Number of people suffering So keep asking the questions, but also be aware of the values of those 2 variables in your neck of the woods. And when there is a gap expect all kinds of gap filling.

audiometry 6y ago

You sound foolish and pompous. And you speak from an arrogance that medicine is a definitive solution to depression and depression-like problems. But that's not necessarily true. Maybe it helped you. It certainly doesn't help all others. It partially helped me. But eventually a bunch of other cognitive practices (none of which are 'approved by medical studies') became a much better cocktail of long-term solutions. This app appears to be just another tool that adults can use to find the custom solution that works for them. I don't see anywhere that he's recommending stop taking SSRIs and use his app exclusively. He's explaining his own journey.

zoozla 6y ago

Your comment deserves an honest reply. If someone hurts themselves because of something that I've said or done, and there is a chance it might, I will hurt, I will mourn and I will do time if it comes to that. But the risk of this won't stop me from looking for better answers to these problems because the answers we have right now aren't good enough. And if a thousand people avoid harming themselves because of this approach and one still does, is that a failure?

acituan 6y ago
> And if a thousand people avoid harming themselves because of this approach and one still does, is that a failure? That’s why we have trials and regulations to assess this risk. Is 1000:1 a good ratio? I don’t know. But I know it is not up to us to make that call. > But the risk of this won't stop me from looking for better answers to these problems because the answers we have right now aren't good enough. Current answers we have for covid is not good enough either but it doesn’t mean we get to experiment willy-nilly in the public space. I admire your self-experimentation and I actually like your tool but you can’t make money out of it while advertising in association with the claim that it fixed your depression. You’re a small enough operation right now that neither FDA or FTC would care much about it, but the very least if you are sincere with your intentions you should put out a bold banner saying “I am not a professional, this is not intended to diagnose cure any problem, if you need help see a professional” everywhere on the site. Also you should be careful with collecting psychometric data, not that it would put you in HIPAA land because you’re not a licensed medical professional, but it is still highly sensitive data so you should be explicit about your data collection.