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Does it? I ask this as a New York resident: how many restaurants is one life worth? I was here back at the peak of the COVID outbreak when there were refrigera

by untog 6y ago

Does it? I ask this as a New York resident: how many restaurants is one life worth? I was here back at the peak of the COVID outbreak when there were refrigerated trucks being loaded with bodies because the morgues had run out of space. It deeply, deeply sucks that a lot of restaurants are going to close. I hope that in time others will reopen in their place... it’s an underreported fact that a lot of restaurants close every year, I’ve had it happen to many favorites. New ones come. To me personally, that loss is a price I’m willing to pay to stop the exponential increase of a pandemic. Maybe you’re right, though. Time will tell. Maybe the economic devastation will ruin NYC for years. Or maybe we’ll get the “v shaped recovery” we’ve been promised. Either way it’s too early to tell.

drstewart 6y ago
It's incredibly generous of you to be willing to give up other people's livelihoods so easily, but isn't really worth much until you would do the same of your own.
- untog 6y ago
  My partner lost their job because of COVID. Please don’t make assumptions about people you don’t know.
- Fernicia 6y ago
  Is it worse than letting them open and spread a deadly disease?
  - logicchains 6y ago
    It's not particularly deadly to the vast majority of people.
    - Fernicia 6y ago
      “Vast” is doing a lot of work here. 33,000 people have died, hundreds of thousands hospitalised in New York since the outbreak. We are still nowhere near here immunity levels. Are we willing to kill 10’s of thousands more so that we can return it indoor dining?
hiimtroymclure 6y ago
its not the restaurant. its the people. its their jobs, their livelihoods that support their families. im not worried about economic devastation per se. im worried about the aftermath. The poverty that will break apart families and ruin kids lives forever. Come out to vegas and maybe your mind will change.
- untog 6y ago
  I don’t mean to sound like I don’t care about that. But it’s not a binary choice: if we had a government that actually cared then we could shut down while financially supporting those who lose their jobs. But we don’t, so we don’t.
goodlifeodyssey 6y ago
I'm also a New York resident, and my wife is a nurse practitioner who worked during COVID. "how many restaurants is one life worth?" It would take quite a few restaurants. However, you are ignoring the fact that letting all of the restaurants close will also kill people. I don't know how large this effect is, but we also don't know how many people will get COVID due to restaurants being open. It's complicated. As a society we are okay with people driving cars, yet we know automobile accidents kill people. I would ask you: How many car trips are worth one life?
- untog 6y ago
  Oh, I actually agree with you that it’s complicated and we don’t know if we’re making the right choice, that’s what I was trying to get at with “it’s too early to tell”. The reality is we won’t know what the right level is for a long time, if we ever do. My preference is to lean on the cautious side. My dispute with the OP was their blanket assertion.
- geofft 6y ago
  (Also a New York resident, hi neighbors!) Yes, the problem we're facing is that the virus is going to be terrible for humanity and for the economy. There's no way around that. There are no good answers. No matter what we do, many people will die and many more will lose their livelihoods and their lives' work. The question before us is to find the least bad answer - how do we save as many lives and livelihoods as possible? Of course every possible answer (including "do nothing and attempt to disclaim moral responsibility," which several governments seem to prefer) has a terrible cost. Some of those options are relatively less terrible. (Personally, I think the city should lock down aggressively and also aggressively provide monetary relief to people negatively impacted, through taking on debt if needed, and figure it out later. If we don't survive this, the city loses its tax base anyway.)

by untog 6y ago

drstewart 6y ago

It's incredibly generous of you to be willing to give up other people's livelihoods so easily, but isn't really worth much until you would do the same of your own.

untog 6y ago
My partner lost their job because of COVID. Please don’t make assumptions about people you don’t know.
Fernicia 6y ago
Is it worse than letting them open and spread a deadly disease?
- logicchains 6y ago
  It's not particularly deadly to the vast majority of people.
  - Fernicia 6y ago
    “Vast” is doing a lot of work here. 33,000 people have died, hundreds of thousands hospitalised in New York since the outbreak. We are still nowhere near here immunity levels. Are we willing to kill 10’s of thousands more so that we can return it indoor dining?

hiimtroymclure 6y ago

its not the restaurant. its the people. its their jobs, their livelihoods that support their families. im not worried about economic devastation per se. im worried about the aftermath. The poverty that will break apart families and ruin kids lives forever. Come out to vegas and maybe your mind will change.

untog 6y ago
I don’t mean to sound like I don’t care about that. But it’s not a binary choice: if we had a government that actually cared then we could shut down while financially supporting those who lose their jobs. But we don’t, so we don’t.

goodlifeodyssey 6y ago

I'm also a New York resident, and my wife is a nurse practitioner who worked during COVID. "how many restaurants is one life worth?" It would take quite a few restaurants. However, you are ignoring the fact that letting all of the restaurants close will also kill people. I don't know how large this effect is, but we also don't know how many people will get COVID due to restaurants being open. It's complicated. As a society we are okay with people driving cars, yet we know automobile accidents kill people. I would ask you: How many car trips are worth one life?

untog 6y ago
Oh, I actually agree with you that it’s complicated and we don’t know if we’re making the right choice, that’s what I was trying to get at with “it’s too early to tell”. The reality is we won’t know what the right level is for a long time, if we ever do. My preference is to lean on the cautious side. My dispute with the OP was their blanket assertion.
geofft 6y ago
(Also a New York resident, hi neighbors!) Yes, the problem we're facing is that the virus is going to be terrible for humanity and for the economy. There's no way around that. There are no good answers. No matter what we do, many people will die and many more will lose their livelihoods and their lives' work. The question before us is to find the least bad answer - how do we save as many lives and livelihoods as possible? Of course every possible answer (including "do nothing and attempt to disclaim moral responsibility," which several governments seem to prefer) has a terrible cost. Some of those options are relatively less terrible. (Personally, I think the city should lock down aggressively and also aggressively provide monetary relief to people negatively impacted, through taking on debt if needed, and figure it out later. If we don't survive this, the city loses its tax base anyway.)