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I can't tell if you're being intentionally ironic or not. Imagine telling an Asian child that they have to work way harder because of their race. You do r

I can't tell if you're being intentionally ironic or not. Imagine telling an Asian child that they have to work way harder because of their race. You do realize that this is exactly what marginalized races have to tell their children, right? "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." I don't know how to change the fallout of centuries of race-based slavery and the immediate drop into generational poverty, outside of trying to elevate people who don't quite deserve on merit alone over others perhaps more fit for the job. If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so, but let's not pretend that there's an empathy or morality to dropping affirmative action because doing so decreases competition for great jobs among the privileged classes.

xvector 6y ago
> marginalized races have to tell their children [...] "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." Exactly my point - this is basically word-for-word what Asian children are told. > outside of trying to elevate people who don't quite deserve on merit alone over others perhaps more fit for the job. And in doing this you condemn others simply because of their race. Ironically, in setting out to solve institutional racism, you merely reinforce it. > I don't know how to change the fallout of centuries of race-based slavery and the immediate drop into generational poverty, Provide learning opportunities to the economically underprivileged before important events like college admissions. > If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so, I value diversity. I abhor achieving diversity via methods that shift the burden of society’s mistakes onto races that people have decided do not matter.
- andrewstuart2 6y ago
  I think I misunderstood your perspective. I thought you were saying that you considered yourself privileged and were not happy about the prospect of increased competition or higher requirements due to candidates being added to the pool. I think now that you've clarified that you're not saying this, though, but that asians are also marginalized? > Provide learning opportunities to the economically underprivileged before important events like college admissions. I appreciate the sentiment here, I really do. It's wonderful to think that with a little bit better education sprinkled in at the right time you can change an entire history of systemic oppression. Something like education is an opportunity that require a certain privilege to even take advantage of. What about when college isn't even an option because you need a job to help put food on the table? It's one thing to tell your kids that they're expected to work harder for the same success. From what I've heard directly from asian friends, that's an asian cultural thing as well. In fact, you're the first I've ever heard describe it as racism. Maybe I'm naive. It's another thing altogether for never have a chance of getting out regardless of opportunity unless that opportunity allows you to also take care of your family as you may have needed to otherwise. Maybe scholarships that also provide social safety nets for the families of children leaving for college instead of working to provide. Now maybe that fits into your idea of not being affirmative action, since it's clearly not a racial criteria, but I don't think anyone will be surprised when this has disproportionate benefits for marginalized races.
jchonphoenix 6y ago
You do realize this is exactly what my mother told me throughout my childhood right? And this is what my nieces and nephew are told. We don't really have to imagine what it feels like to be marginalized. In your own words, we already are.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so..." Personal attacks are against HN guidelines, no matter how well intentioned your cause. Implying that Asians, Indians, and so forth are "privileged classes" and not "marginalized races" too and suggesting the diversity they bring is of no "value" is probably why this cause has negligible support among Asians, Indians, and so forth, beyond a bit of token lip service. Why work so hard to alienate and denigrate the very people whose support you ought to be courting to bolster your side?
- andrewstuart2 6y ago
  Where's the personal attack? As for your latter statement, I never said anything like that. You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth. As far as I could tell, that was the stance taken by the person I responded to. As for income equality, I'm seeing that, in the US, Asians reported the highest median household income in 2019 at more than double the median black household income. If you really want to talk about value, it seems that the money is indicating plenty of value across the board. https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-266.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-...

xvector 6y ago

> marginalized races have to tell their children [...] "You will have to work harder because of the color of your skin, and it might not matter at all." Exactly my point - this is basically word-for-word what Asian children are told. > outside of trying to elevate people who don't quite deserve on merit alone over others perhaps more fit for the job. And in doing this you condemn others simply because of their race. Ironically, in setting out to solve institutional racism, you merely reinforce it. > I don't know how to change the fallout of centuries of race-based slavery and the immediate drop into generational poverty, Provide learning opportunities to the economically underprivileged before important events like college admissions. > If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so, I value diversity. I abhor achieving diversity via methods that shift the burden of society’s mistakes onto races that people have decided do not matter.

andrewstuart2 6y ago
I think I misunderstood your perspective. I thought you were saying that you considered yourself privileged and were not happy about the prospect of increased competition or higher requirements due to candidates being added to the pool. I think now that you've clarified that you're not saying this, though, but that asians are also marginalized? > Provide learning opportunities to the economically underprivileged before important events like college admissions. I appreciate the sentiment here, I really do. It's wonderful to think that with a little bit better education sprinkled in at the right time you can change an entire history of systemic oppression. Something like education is an opportunity that require a certain privilege to even take advantage of. What about when college isn't even an option because you need a job to help put food on the table? It's one thing to tell your kids that they're expected to work harder for the same success. From what I've heard directly from asian friends, that's an asian cultural thing as well. In fact, you're the first I've ever heard describe it as racism. Maybe I'm naive. It's another thing altogether for never have a chance of getting out regardless of opportunity unless that opportunity allows you to also take care of your family as you may have needed to otherwise. Maybe scholarships that also provide social safety nets for the families of children leaving for college instead of working to provide. Now maybe that fits into your idea of not being affirmative action, since it's clearly not a racial criteria, but I don't think anyone will be surprised when this has disproportionate benefits for marginalized races.

jchonphoenix 6y ago

You do realize this is exactly what my mother told me throughout my childhood right? And this is what my nieces and nephew are told. We don't really have to imagine what it feels like to be marginalized. In your own words, we already are.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

> "If you don't value diversity, maybe just say so..." Personal attacks are against HN guidelines, no matter how well intentioned your cause. Implying that Asians, Indians, and so forth are "privileged classes" and not "marginalized races" too and suggesting the diversity they bring is of no "value" is probably why this cause has negligible support among Asians, Indians, and so forth, beyond a bit of token lip service. Why work so hard to alienate and denigrate the very people whose support you ought to be courting to bolster your side?

andrewstuart2 6y ago
Where's the personal attack? As for your latter statement, I never said anything like that. You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth. As far as I could tell, that was the stance taken by the person I responded to. As for income equality, I'm seeing that, in the US, Asians reported the highest median household income in 2019 at more than double the median black household income. If you really want to talk about value, it seems that the money is indicating plenty of value across the board. https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-266.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2019/demo/p60-...