5 ms·

I think its important to call out that, it's entirely possible to become a fluent speaker in any secondary language you commit to, at any age. I've seen it and

I think its important to call out that, it's entirely possible to become a fluent speaker in any secondary language you commit to, at any age. I've seen it and know people who've put in the hard work. However, the distinction here is that, the older you get, the harder it is. A lot is stacked against an older brain, both in its ability to quickly make room for the massive amount of new knowledge required and your life's ability to make time for it. If you persevere, you can get there, but you're just going to have to understand that it's going to feel like climbing Mount Everest. If you're a kid or teenager, it will come to you much faster and maybe like taking a walk up a small SF street. Kids can learn a new language simply by watching a subtitled TV show or listening to music in that language. Adults on the other hand need structured exercises, dedicated studying time and immersion.

titzer 6y ago
On the other hand, an adult brain has an advantage in that it already knows another language fluently, so complex words and concepts in the new language can be explained by way of translation, analogy, and deconstruction into the native language. An adult also has the advantage of structured learning and applying the most efficient language-learning strategy: systematic study of vocabulary and grammar, etc. Adults do have a disadvantage as far as accents and fluency are concerned though. For that, you need total immersion (i.e. no relying on prior language as a crutch) and to completely reset oral posture rather than letting the oral posture of their native language influence speaking habits.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  In the very early days of learning a language, about the only native-speaker conversations one can follow are between mothers and small children. A year later, however, one is capable of participating in conversations that are much richer than those mothers are still having with the same children.
ngokevin 6y ago
Yeah, anyone can learn a language quickly. I'm not sure how much the old brain affects it or at what age it cuts off. But people that put in the time or are in the right environment can pick up a language in months. Polyglots do it all the time, and they aren't geniuses, they just found methods that worked for them and have fun with it. I just don't think there are popular good methods out there. The most successful is complete immersion, but that's extremely hard to be in that situation. Most people want to learn a language for fun. People first default is to rely on Duolingo but everyone I talked to don't learn anything from it even after using it for hundreds of days. I get by with Anki, but definitely helps to have native speaker nearby to help and practice.
- zumu 6y ago
  > But people that put in the time or are in the right environment can pick up a language in months. The time aspect cannot be emphasized enough. Time is a huge issue for adult language learners. You simply need to spend a lot of time listening, speaking and forming relationships in the target language. As a child, socializing and learning is your full time job, so it's a lot more straightforward. No pesky job or dependents to take care of. Another issue people don't discuss much is personality / identity. As a child, we are so much more malleable with regards to that. It can be very difficult for adults to fully step back out of their cultural and social sense of self and enter a new context where they are totally clueless and inept. As a child getting set back a few years temporarily isn't a big deal—you just get put in a few ESL classes and you can still play games and socialize with your peers. But to go from a high functioning adult to a toddler is quite taxing emotionally.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    > ... enter a new context where they are totally clueless and inept. Fortunately those of us on HN relearn software ecosystems every few years, to teach us humility. I often wonder if there had been a class distinction in the "it's all greek to me" saying in english? For some englishmen, the simile would be saying that it was incomprehensible foreign squiggles, and they'd never understand, but for others it would be saying that it was incomprehensible foreign squiggles, yet with a bit of swotting and practice they'd eventually understand. CASSIUS: Did Cicero say any thing? CASCA: Ay, he spoke Greek. Bonus clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk

titzer 6y ago

On the other hand, an adult brain has an advantage in that it already knows another language fluently, so complex words and concepts in the new language can be explained by way of translation, analogy, and deconstruction into the native language. An adult also has the advantage of structured learning and applying the most efficient language-learning strategy: systematic study of vocabulary and grammar, etc. Adults do have a disadvantage as far as accents and fluency are concerned though. For that, you need total immersion (i.e. no relying on prior language as a crutch) and to completely reset oral posture rather than letting the oral posture of their native language influence speaking habits.

082349872349872 6y ago
In the very early days of learning a language, about the only native-speaker conversations one can follow are between mothers and small children. A year later, however, one is capable of participating in conversations that are much richer than those mothers are still having with the same children.

ngokevin 6y ago

Yeah, anyone can learn a language quickly. I'm not sure how much the old brain affects it or at what age it cuts off. But people that put in the time or are in the right environment can pick up a language in months. Polyglots do it all the time, and they aren't geniuses, they just found methods that worked for them and have fun with it. I just don't think there are popular good methods out there. The most successful is complete immersion, but that's extremely hard to be in that situation. Most people want to learn a language for fun. People first default is to rely on Duolingo but everyone I talked to don't learn anything from it even after using it for hundreds of days. I get by with Anki, but definitely helps to have native speaker nearby to help and practice.

zumu 6y ago
> But people that put in the time or are in the right environment can pick up a language in months. The time aspect cannot be emphasized enough. Time is a huge issue for adult language learners. You simply need to spend a lot of time listening, speaking and forming relationships in the target language. As a child, socializing and learning is your full time job, so it's a lot more straightforward. No pesky job or dependents to take care of. Another issue people don't discuss much is personality / identity. As a child, we are so much more malleable with regards to that. It can be very difficult for adults to fully step back out of their cultural and social sense of self and enter a new context where they are totally clueless and inept. As a child getting set back a few years temporarily isn't a big deal—you just get put in a few ESL classes and you can still play games and socialize with your peers. But to go from a high functioning adult to a toddler is quite taxing emotionally.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  > ... enter a new context where they are totally clueless and inept. Fortunately those of us on HN relearn software ecosystems every few years, to teach us humility. I often wonder if there had been a class distinction in the "it's all greek to me" saying in english? For some englishmen, the simile would be saying that it was incomprehensible foreign squiggles, and they'd never understand, but for others it would be saying that it was incomprehensible foreign squiggles, yet with a bit of swotting and practice they'd eventually understand. CASSIUS: Did Cicero say any thing? CASCA: Ay, he spoke Greek. Bonus clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydqReeTV_vk