4 ms·

Why was Concorde unable to compete in the Pacific? Range?

vkou 6y ago
Yes. Its maximum range was 4,500 miles. That won't even get you from Seattle to Tokyo (4,700 miles), let alone to anywhere else in Asia. You can do two hops, by stopping in Anchorage, which will get you to Tokyo or Seoul on the second hop (Stopping in Hawaii won't get you the range to go to Seoul), but at that point a no-stop subsonic flight is faster, more comfortable, burns less jet fuel, and does not require you to make a landing within spitting distance of the Arctic circle. This jet promises[1] to deliver a range of 4,500 nautical miles, which will barely get you from Seattle to crash-landing in the mountains east of Seoul (4530 nautical miles) [1] It remains to be seen whether it will deliver on this promise.
- minitoar 6y ago
  How did you calculate that a subsonic flight with no stops is faster?
gok 6y ago
Both because it did not have enough range and because it went out of production before airlines in Asia, Australia, or the Americas could buy it. Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul.
- rkangel 6y ago
  > Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul Can you explain more about this? I assumed those routes were just ones that were only of interest to the more local carriers.
  - gok 6y ago
    The laws around this are very complicated but generally airlines are not allowed to operate flights that operate between two non-home countries unless it's part of a larger route that originates in home country. This would be called a 7th freedom flight, and outside of the EU almost no countries have a deal like this. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air )
- cjrp 6y ago
  > Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul. Wouldn't those be covered under the fifth freedom[1], assuming the flight originated in the airline's home country. E.g. BA flying London -> Seattle -> Tokyo. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air#Fifth_freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air#Fifth_free...
  - gok 6y ago
    Well Concorde couldn't make it to Seattle from London, so it would have had to do like London -> New York -> (subsonically) Seattle -> Tokyo which would have been a pretty hard sell I think. Plus the Seattle -> Tokyo route in particular would have required a next generation plane.

vkou 6y ago

Yes. Its maximum range was 4,500 miles. That won't even get you from Seattle to Tokyo (4,700 miles), let alone to anywhere else in Asia. You can do two hops, by stopping in Anchorage, which will get you to Tokyo or Seoul on the second hop (Stopping in Hawaii won't get you the range to go to Seoul), but at that point a no-stop subsonic flight is faster, more comfortable, burns less jet fuel, and does not require you to make a landing within spitting distance of the Arctic circle. This jet promises[1] to deliver a range of 4,500 nautical miles, which will barely get you from Seattle to crash-landing in the mountains east of Seoul (4530 nautical miles) [1] It remains to be seen whether it will deliver on this promise.

minitoar 6y ago
How did you calculate that a subsonic flight with no stops is faster?

gok 6y ago

Both because it did not have enough range and because it went out of production before airlines in Asia, Australia, or the Americas could buy it. Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul.

rkangel 6y ago
> Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul Can you explain more about this? I assumed those routes were just ones that were only of interest to the more local carriers.
- gok 6y ago
  The laws around this are very complicated but generally airlines are not allowed to operate flights that operate between two non-home countries unless it's part of a larger route that originates in home country. This would be called a 7th freedom flight, and outside of the EU almost no countries have a deal like this. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air )
cjrp 6y ago
> Air France and British Airways can not legally fly routes like Seattle -> Tokyo or Sydney -> Seoul. Wouldn't those be covered under the fifth freedom[1], assuming the flight originated in the airline's home country. E.g. BA flying London -> Seattle -> Tokyo. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air#Fifth_freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air#Fifth_free...
- gok 6y ago
  Well Concorde couldn't make it to Seattle from London, so it would have had to do like London -> New York -> (subsonically) Seattle -> Tokyo which would have been a pretty hard sell I think. Plus the Seattle -> Tokyo route in particular would have required a next generation plane.