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Perhaps it's more likely if you are in a deep relationship with a native speaker, since often that's a reason why people want to learn a language. This is sort

Perhaps it's more likely if you are in a deep relationship with a native speaker, since often that's a reason why people want to learn a language. This is sort of a plug, but I just started a new project to help couples to learn each other's languages (https://learncoupling.com https://learncoupling.com). Since my wife is Chinese herself, and I've been learning Chinese for quite a while. Most couples around me have tried and failed to learn each other's language as well since they expect each other to be their sole on-demand language teacher. For me, I think it works if I do mostly self-study with Anki. We schedule a certain time of day for like 5 or 10 minutes where I'm just running through my flashcards and my wife can correct me or clarify things. And if the corrections can asynchronous through an app, it'd feel less awkward as you say.

shard 6y ago
One issue is that often it takes someone who has had language instruction experience to properly explain nuances. I've often asked my spouse questions about grammar usage, and since it is instinctive for her and not a premeditated decision like it is for me, she is unable to clearly delineate the proper context and edge cases where a certain grammar would apply. Same with vocabulary. When you have a dozen synonyms, each with a different nuance, it's often tedious and difficult for a non-language instructor to provide clear explanations.
- golem14 6y ago
  I have a similar experience trying to help someone speak German.
  - ngokevin 6y ago
    What pitfalls did you run into? From what I heard, the learner often expects the other person to become their personal on-demand language teacher. And then patience burns out quickly. I think it works if the learner is committed to self-study but only relies on others for a bit of reinforcement, clarification, and practice.
    - golem14 6y ago
      I don't think about grammar when talking, so to explain when to say "kein" vs "nicht" took a few moments . Translating "oder" or "eben" is surprisingly difficult, just to name a few examples.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  Yeah, I talked to a lot of couples and am totally aware it's hard to explain your own language or teach a language if you're not a teacher. I actually even know cases where language teachers that failed to teach their own language to their partner. So I'm more gearing it for having your partner act as support, practice, clarification, and reinforcement along with prescribed self-study. And also just make it fun!
- rgossiaux 6y ago
  I think it's best to use native speakers as oracles: you can give them a piece of language and they can tell you if it's correct/natural or how they'd phrase it. You can't expect people to go beyond that, and trying to explicitly systematize the grammar isn't necessarily important or that valuable anyway; you need to internalize the grammar (as one has done with a native language) and that's not a conscious process.
  - shard 6y ago
    I think this really depends on the individual learning style. Some people are able to extrapolate from examples and internalize it (e.g. those people who learn language simply from watching TV), and others need a more explicit structure to guide them before they really start internalizing. No method works for everyone all the time.
saas_sam 6y ago
Wow this is cool. My partner is Chinese too.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  Awesome, I'd love to help you pick up some of their Chines!. I really enjoy learning it, and there's just so much magic and history in each word and phrase. It's fun learning with a partner if done right. I knew an American/Chinese couple that burned themselves out by trying to go "only talk Chinese" for 2 weeks.
holoduke 6y ago
I once had a girlfriend from Ukraine. I was 20 and so much in love that I spend 4 hours everyday studying russian. After a year I got to a point where I could be in any conversation. Now I am 39 and for 10 years I try to learn French. The needs are there, but the will and motivation just doesn't want to be there.
- mamon 6y ago
  Are you from Central Europe? That might be a factor if Russian was similar to your mother's tongue and French is not.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  That's pretty awesome! I have a friend studying Ukranian right now since his fiancee is Ukranian. Are you with a French person right now? I'd love to just make it a fun little activity you do every day. Just a few words a day (N + 1 daily), maybe 5 minutes help with a partner. And make it an enjoyable activity versus burnout grinds.
xwolfi 6y ago
Anki is nice but for exemple my wife is chinese too and we live in Hong Kong, I m having so much laziness learning canto, I just reply "I already have to learn english" when the rare troll ask me why im still an idiot after 7 years. And my wife isnt getting any better at French either. Our 2yo daughter however, she gets everything we all say in any language lol If chinese was mandatory to survive, like maybe it is in China mainland, maybe I d have been able to learn it more. But Ill check your site, who knows!
zb1plus 6y ago
This is a seriously cool project. My girlfriend is Chinese and I currently attempting to learn her native language and have often run into the problems you mention.

shard 6y ago

One issue is that often it takes someone who has had language instruction experience to properly explain nuances. I've often asked my spouse questions about grammar usage, and since it is instinctive for her and not a premeditated decision like it is for me, she is unable to clearly delineate the proper context and edge cases where a certain grammar would apply. Same with vocabulary. When you have a dozen synonyms, each with a different nuance, it's often tedious and difficult for a non-language instructor to provide clear explanations.

golem14 6y ago
I have a similar experience trying to help someone speak German.
- ngokevin 6y ago
  What pitfalls did you run into? From what I heard, the learner often expects the other person to become their personal on-demand language teacher. And then patience burns out quickly. I think it works if the learner is committed to self-study but only relies on others for a bit of reinforcement, clarification, and practice.
  - golem14 6y ago
    I don't think about grammar when talking, so to explain when to say "kein" vs "nicht" took a few moments . Translating "oder" or "eben" is surprisingly difficult, just to name a few examples.
ngokevin 6y ago
Yeah, I talked to a lot of couples and am totally aware it's hard to explain your own language or teach a language if you're not a teacher. I actually even know cases where language teachers that failed to teach their own language to their partner. So I'm more gearing it for having your partner act as support, practice, clarification, and reinforcement along with prescribed self-study. And also just make it fun!
rgossiaux 6y ago
I think it's best to use native speakers as oracles: you can give them a piece of language and they can tell you if it's correct/natural or how they'd phrase it. You can't expect people to go beyond that, and trying to explicitly systematize the grammar isn't necessarily important or that valuable anyway; you need to internalize the grammar (as one has done with a native language) and that's not a conscious process.
- shard 6y ago
  I think this really depends on the individual learning style. Some people are able to extrapolate from examples and internalize it (e.g. those people who learn language simply from watching TV), and others need a more explicit structure to guide them before they really start internalizing. No method works for everyone all the time.

saas_sam 6y ago

Wow this is cool. My partner is Chinese too.

ngokevin 6y ago
Awesome, I'd love to help you pick up some of their Chines!. I really enjoy learning it, and there's just so much magic and history in each word and phrase. It's fun learning with a partner if done right. I knew an American/Chinese couple that burned themselves out by trying to go "only talk Chinese" for 2 weeks.

holoduke 6y ago

I once had a girlfriend from Ukraine. I was 20 and so much in love that I spend 4 hours everyday studying russian. After a year I got to a point where I could be in any conversation. Now I am 39 and for 10 years I try to learn French. The needs are there, but the will and motivation just doesn't want to be there.

mamon 6y ago
Are you from Central Europe? That might be a factor if Russian was similar to your mother's tongue and French is not.
ngokevin 6y ago
That's pretty awesome! I have a friend studying Ukranian right now since his fiancee is Ukranian. Are you with a French person right now? I'd love to just make it a fun little activity you do every day. Just a few words a day (N + 1 daily), maybe 5 minutes help with a partner. And make it an enjoyable activity versus burnout grinds.

xwolfi 6y ago

Anki is nice but for exemple my wife is chinese too and we live in Hong Kong, I m having so much laziness learning canto, I just reply "I already have to learn english" when the rare troll ask me why im still an idiot after 7 years. And my wife isnt getting any better at French either. Our 2yo daughter however, she gets everything we all say in any language lol If chinese was mandatory to survive, like maybe it is in China mainland, maybe I d have been able to learn it more. But Ill check your site, who knows!

zb1plus 6y ago

This is a seriously cool project. My girlfriend is Chinese and I currently attempting to learn her native language and have often run into the problems you mention.