4 ms·

I agree with you. Question for the group, since hardware security isn't my area. Will Apple be able to update this vulnerable in a T2.1 or T3? Gives me a new re

by czbond 6y ago

I agree with you. Question for the group, since hardware security isn't my area. Will Apple be able to update this vulnerable in a T2.1 or T3? Gives me a new reason for yet another MBP I guess (just purchased the 16")

zitterbewegung 6y ago
T2 is basically a bridge (EDIT: as others have pointed out for this term I meant a temporary fix for non ARM Macs) between Intel Macs and Arm Macs to allow for macOS 11 to work on both platforms with feature parity such as Siri. Its probably a good idea to get a new Arm Mac as your next Macbook Pro because the T2 chip doesn't even need to be there anymore.
- czbond 6y ago
  Danke - that was enlightening. Would never have known those - great quick analysis.
- djrogers 6y ago
  That’s not at all what the T2 is. It’s a multi-purpose processor that handles some security related services (like the Secure Enclave), acts as the SSD controller, handles the camera light, touchID, and other stuff. It’s not there as a ‘bridge’ - plenty of macs without T2 processors run macOS 11 and Siri with full feature parity, and neither of those things relies on the T2.
  - derefr 6y ago
    What the GP is saying is that the T2 is effectively “the processor” of Macs it’s in, in the sense that it’s performing the function of a System Management Controller, managing early boot, etc. The Intel CPU in these systems is reduced to being an “application processor”—much like in ARM systems where boot and IO are handled through the GPU. (This is why you can’t install OSes other than macOS on these devices. It’s not because of DRM or anything—though that’s an aspect of it. Rather, it’s because the T2 is in control of boot, and no other OS has had a second-stage bootloader written for it that will load onto the T2 chip to do hardware bringup from that side.) Maybe “bridge” is the wrong word here—though I can see the meaning. A precise term, I think, would be “polyfill.” The T2 is the place where Apple is putting 1. its IP-core customizations that it can’t just plop into the Intel CPU, because it doesn’t control the Intel CPU; and 2. its top-level “BIOS-alike”, allowing them to bring up the hardware in a way they control, rather than having to convince the Intel CPU to do it in a way it understands. The T2 and the Intel CPU acting together, roughly simulates an architecture akin to that of an ARM Mac (as with any other polyfill, where the old runtime and the polyfill acting together roughly simulate the capabilities of the new runtime.) The interesting thing about this, is that it’s likely that because the polyfill roughly simulates the environment of an ARM mac (where these IP cores are accessible directly through the CPU, and where hardware bringup is always done in Apple’s preferred fashion without having to trick the Intel CPU into it), the drivers written for Intel-plus-T2 macOS, are also likely able to be run with only small changes, directly on ARM macOS. That’s why the GP is calling the T2 a “bridge”: it’s a half-step across the chasm between the archtectures; an intermediate architectural target that allows some but not all of the work of developing ARM macOS to be done before any Apple Silicon ARM platforms like the A14Z were actually available to be developed on.
    - zitterbewegung 6y ago
      Thanks for being more articulate in my viewpoint. Also, "bridgeos" is the operating system on the T2 also.
    - kenada 6y ago
      Linux installs[1] and runs on T2 Macs. The experience varies depending on the model, but it mostly works. The only thing likely to never be supported is Wi-Fi, which is due to the lack of compatible firmware rather than anything to do with the T2 chip. [1]: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
  - jsjohnst 6y ago
    > handles the camera light That’s not true. The camera use indicator light is hardwired into the camera circuitry and turns on when the sensor is powered up. There is no “software” involved in turning on the camera use indicator light.

by czbond 6y ago

zitterbewegung 6y ago

T2 is basically a bridge (EDIT: as others have pointed out for this term I meant a temporary fix for non ARM Macs) between Intel Macs and Arm Macs to allow for macOS 11 to work on both platforms with feature parity such as Siri. Its probably a good idea to get a new Arm Mac as your next Macbook Pro because the T2 chip doesn't even need to be there anymore.

czbond 6y ago
Danke - that was enlightening. Would never have known those - great quick analysis.
djrogers 6y ago
That’s not at all what the T2 is. It’s a multi-purpose processor that handles some security related services (like the Secure Enclave), acts as the SSD controller, handles the camera light, touchID, and other stuff. It’s not there as a ‘bridge’ - plenty of macs without T2 processors run macOS 11 and Siri with full feature parity, and neither of those things relies on the T2.
- derefr 6y ago
  What the GP is saying is that the T2 is effectively “the processor” of Macs it’s in, in the sense that it’s performing the function of a System Management Controller, managing early boot, etc. The Intel CPU in these systems is reduced to being an “application processor”—much like in ARM systems where boot and IO are handled through the GPU. (This is why you can’t install OSes other than macOS on these devices. It’s not because of DRM or anything—though that’s an aspect of it. Rather, it’s because the T2 is in control of boot, and no other OS has had a second-stage bootloader written for it that will load onto the T2 chip to do hardware bringup from that side.) Maybe “bridge” is the wrong word here—though I can see the meaning. A precise term, I think, would be “polyfill.” The T2 is the place where Apple is putting 1. its IP-core customizations that it can’t just plop into the Intel CPU, because it doesn’t control the Intel CPU; and 2. its top-level “BIOS-alike”, allowing them to bring up the hardware in a way they control, rather than having to convince the Intel CPU to do it in a way it understands. The T2 and the Intel CPU acting together, roughly simulates an architecture akin to that of an ARM Mac (as with any other polyfill, where the old runtime and the polyfill acting together roughly simulate the capabilities of the new runtime.) The interesting thing about this, is that it’s likely that because the polyfill roughly simulates the environment of an ARM mac (where these IP cores are accessible directly through the CPU, and where hardware bringup is always done in Apple’s preferred fashion without having to trick the Intel CPU into it), the drivers written for Intel-plus-T2 macOS, are also likely able to be run with only small changes, directly on ARM macOS. That’s why the GP is calling the T2 a “bridge”: it’s a half-step across the chasm between the archtectures; an intermediate architectural target that allows some but not all of the work of developing ARM macOS to be done before any Apple Silicon ARM platforms like the A14Z were actually available to be developed on.
  - zitterbewegung 6y ago
    Thanks for being more articulate in my viewpoint. Also, "bridgeos" is the operating system on the T2 also.
  - kenada 6y ago
    Linux installs[1] and runs on T2 Macs. The experience varies depending on the model, but it mostly works. The only thing likely to never be supported is Wi-Fi, which is due to the lack of compatible firmware rather than anything to do with the T2 chip. [1]: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
- jsjohnst 6y ago
  > handles the camera light That’s not true. The camera use indicator light is hardwired into the camera circuitry and turns on when the sensor is powered up. There is no “software” involved in turning on the camera use indicator light.