5 ms·

I don't think the comparison to Rotten Tomatoes makes sense because you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products. To me it is just another prod

I don't think the comparison to Rotten Tomatoes makes sense because you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products. To me it is just another product review site tackling a niche. But the idea of tracking cost per month is very intriguing (a measure of TCO, which you may want to tackle as well, because for some products that may include electricity usage, upkeep, etc). I think it is something that can truly differentiate, and can appeal to everyone, not just people that are concerned with reducing their environmental footprint.

fbn79 6y ago
I agree with you. It's more like metacritics than rotten-tomatoes
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  Even metacritic focus is/was aggregating professional critics' scores, although nowadays they have plenty of community reviews as well
donmcronald 6y ago
> because you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products outdoorgearlab.com looks like a professional review site to me in the context of being an affiliate marketing / review site. IMHO almost all reviews online are affiliate marketing these days, so what I'd really be interested in is a site that hosts reviews and doesn't allow _any_ affiliate marketing or external links. IE: No incentive to game the system with inflated review scores. And if you pay attention to those affiliate marketing sites that are disguised as review sites, note how they never give anything a bad review. "Poisoned my dog, caused my house to be condemned - 4.0/5.0 stars." Getting you to buy _something_ is the only goal.
- skratlo 6y ago
  outdoorgearlab.com ? you must be kidding me, in their reviews, they leave out ~50% of competition, and their sorting of best product in category is apparently a bidding game, shifted just right to make the results believable. I do spent lots of time on researching outdoor products for my own needs, and outdoorgearlab.com is a joke
  - hnu0847 6y ago
    Where are the best places to find good information if not outdoorgearlab?
  - bdamm 6y ago
    So, basically just like car & driver?
  - hammock 6y ago
    OGL used to be great. They didn't get to where they are because of scumminess. However, the quality has dropped in the last few years, and they do seem to be more influenced by affiliate marketing these days.
    - svachalek 6y ago
      There's big money in affiliate marketing and very little in reviews so this gradual erosion is unfortunately universal in review sites.
- jtbayly 6y ago
  > No incentive to game the system with inflated review scores. There huge incentives from the companies who make the products to influence the ratings, regardless. Is there any way that this site can prevent fake reviews?
- hammock 6y ago
  Reddit is the biggest player in this space right now. "[xyz product] reddit" are very popular search terms.
  - wyre 6y ago
    I think because without Reddit every result is an affiliate blog trying to sell the product. Reddit feels like the reviews come from real people.
    - nwienert 6y ago
      How to build the next Google: all good results these days are within communities, and Google search has become useless for most of these searches. So don't build a search engine: build a "rotten tomatoes for X" where the sources for each X are "the top N subreddits/communities/editorial-sites/forums for X". For example, supplements: examine.com, reddit /r/supplements /r/nootropics (long tail ones), wikipedia, etc. Then, final piece: make this aggregator site also a community (ala reddit/hn) where people vote on the results rankings, but also vote on how other people comment on them. Because you can lock down user accounts quite a bit (have high bar for registration with lots of verification for voting permissions), and you have a quality indictor for the users themselves (users voting on users), you may get much better results over time as the community sorts out who are legit and who isn't. I'm not saying any system is immune to optimization/spam, but it feels like Reddit, HN, SO, Wikipedia at least prove that if you want good quality content, rely on a community. Why not extend the model to search itself?
      - hunter2_ 6y ago
        I think wikipedia, HN, etc. are less suseptible because people don't use those sites as heavily to make purchasing decisions. Any community that helps with purchasing will be targeted by those interested in sales who figure out how to meet the "high bar" no matter what that may be. Even purchase verification isn't high enough these days (see recent unsolicited package scams such as the seeds from China).
- Pxtl 6y ago
  Straight up paid astroturfing is probably more lucrative and less obvious than affiliate links - It just requires more co-operation between the marketer and the salesman.
- tomcam 6y ago
  In your ideal version, how would the site get paid for?
morsch 6y ago
> you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products They are: https://www.buyforlifeproducts.com/products/9 https://www.buyforlifeproducts.com/products/9 Wirecutter, Good Housekeeping, GearLab
- dumbfounder 6y ago
  My bad, I had clicked on several products (5 or so) that didn't have pro reviews. I went back and was able to find some with pro reviews. Seems like they need to beef this end up considerably if this is going to be a differentiator.
- aSockPuppeteer 6y ago
  Wirecutter is a pay to play setup. Give them a referral code or your product is not the top pick anymore after careful consideration. I think it really depends on: (disposable income * time to evaluate reviews - fakespot review adjustment) Reddit has been a good resource lately as someone else mentioned. They have a buy it for life subreddit. Camelcamelcamel for price history.
  - jonlucc 6y ago
    I haven't heard that about Wirecutter, and I think that would devastate their brand (and maybe hurt NYT's) if true.
    - jfim 6y ago
      There was some drama about it [0][1] a while ago about standing desk reviews. [0] https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to-play-model https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/69npx4/drama_between_thewirecutter_and_nextdesk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/69npx4/drama_...
      - Fission 6y ago
        I keep on seeing this link pop up. Since no one is replying, I'd like to point out that I think the Wirecutter is actually in the right here. Another HN member did some investigation and found that Xdesk is stretching things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22144078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22144078 In general, having been able to talk with some of the people there, I'm convinced that WC was focused first and foremost on truth-seeking and quality at this point in their life (pre-acquisition) — however, the consensus seems to have been that after the NYT acquired them, they started becoming more incentivized to grow revenue, and started to jump the shark.
monksy 6y ago
If you could talk about TCO as in service costs associated, that would be amazing. I.e. A PS4 costs $300.. but after PS+ service costs (to use the features they give you).. that's something like $5/month extra.
hubraumhugo 6y ago
As mentioned below, I'm indeed aggregating professional reviews from different sources like Wirecutter or Gearlabs, there is just not that much data yet. However, this should not be the core focus. After getting enough product submissions from users, I will focus on the cost per month metric. As you said, this could be the true differentiator.
scollet 6y ago
> I don't think the comparison to Rotten Tomatoes makes sense... That went a totally different direction than I was expecting.
cptaj 6y ago
Another thought is comparing its durability with just buying more of a cheaper version. If I have a 500 shoe, does it last the same as 5 similar shoes in a row?

fbn79 6y ago

I agree with you. It's more like metacritics than rotten-tomatoes

tupputuppu 6y ago
Even metacritic focus is/was aggregating professional critics' scores, although nowadays they have plenty of community reviews as well

donmcronald 6y ago

> because you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products outdoorgearlab.com looks like a professional review site to me in the context of being an affiliate marketing / review site. IMHO almost all reviews online are affiliate marketing these days, so what I'd really be interested in is a site that hosts reviews and doesn't allow _any_ affiliate marketing or external links. IE: No incentive to game the system with inflated review scores. And if you pay attention to those affiliate marketing sites that are disguised as review sites, note how they never give anything a bad review. "Poisoned my dog, caused my house to be condemned - 4.0/5.0 stars." Getting you to buy _something_ is the only goal.

skratlo 6y ago
outdoorgearlab.com ? you must be kidding me, in their reviews, they leave out ~50% of competition, and their sorting of best product in category is apparently a bidding game, shifted just right to make the results believable. I do spent lots of time on researching outdoor products for my own needs, and outdoorgearlab.com is a joke
- hnu0847 6y ago
  Where are the best places to find good information if not outdoorgearlab?
- bdamm 6y ago
  So, basically just like car & driver?
- hammock 6y ago
  OGL used to be great. They didn't get to where they are because of scumminess. However, the quality has dropped in the last few years, and they do seem to be more influenced by affiliate marketing these days.
  - svachalek 6y ago
    There's big money in affiliate marketing and very little in reviews so this gradual erosion is unfortunately universal in review sites.
jtbayly 6y ago
> No incentive to game the system with inflated review scores. There huge incentives from the companies who make the products to influence the ratings, regardless. Is there any way that this site can prevent fake reviews?
hammock 6y ago
Reddit is the biggest player in this space right now. "[xyz product] reddit" are very popular search terms.
- wyre 6y ago
  I think because without Reddit every result is an affiliate blog trying to sell the product. Reddit feels like the reviews come from real people.
  - nwienert 6y ago
    How to build the next Google: all good results these days are within communities, and Google search has become useless for most of these searches. So don't build a search engine: build a "rotten tomatoes for X" where the sources for each X are "the top N subreddits/communities/editorial-sites/forums for X". For example, supplements: examine.com, reddit /r/supplements /r/nootropics (long tail ones), wikipedia, etc. Then, final piece: make this aggregator site also a community (ala reddit/hn) where people vote on the results rankings, but also vote on how other people comment on them. Because you can lock down user accounts quite a bit (have high bar for registration with lots of verification for voting permissions), and you have a quality indictor for the users themselves (users voting on users), you may get much better results over time as the community sorts out who are legit and who isn't. I'm not saying any system is immune to optimization/spam, but it feels like Reddit, HN, SO, Wikipedia at least prove that if you want good quality content, rely on a community. Why not extend the model to search itself?
    - hunter2_ 6y ago
      I think wikipedia, HN, etc. are less suseptible because people don't use those sites as heavily to make purchasing decisions. Any community that helps with purchasing will be targeted by those interested in sales who figure out how to meet the "high bar" no matter what that may be. Even purchase verification isn't high enough these days (see recent unsolicited package scams such as the seeds from China).
Pxtl 6y ago
Straight up paid astroturfing is probably more lucrative and less obvious than affiliate links - It just requires more co-operation between the marketer and the salesman.
tomcam 6y ago
In your ideal version, how would the site get paid for?

morsch 6y ago

> you aren't aggregating professional reviews of these products They are: https://www.buyforlifeproducts.com/products/9 https://www.buyforlifeproducts.com/products/9 Wirecutter, Good Housekeeping, GearLab

dumbfounder 6y ago
My bad, I had clicked on several products (5 or so) that didn't have pro reviews. I went back and was able to find some with pro reviews. Seems like they need to beef this end up considerably if this is going to be a differentiator.
aSockPuppeteer 6y ago
Wirecutter is a pay to play setup. Give them a referral code or your product is not the top pick anymore after careful consideration. I think it really depends on: (disposable income * time to evaluate reviews - fakespot review adjustment) Reddit has been a good resource lately as someone else mentioned. They have a buy it for life subreddit. Camelcamelcamel for price history.
- jonlucc 6y ago
  I haven't heard that about Wirecutter, and I think that would devastate their brand (and maybe hurt NYT's) if true.
  - jfim 6y ago
    There was some drama about it [0][1] a while ago about standing desk reviews. [0] https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to-play-model https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to... [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/69npx4/drama_between_thewirecutter_and_nextdesk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/StandingDesk/comments/69npx4/drama_...
    - Fission 6y ago
      I keep on seeing this link pop up. Since no one is replying, I'd like to point out that I think the Wirecutter is actually in the right here. Another HN member did some investigation and found that Xdesk is stretching things: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22144078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22144078 In general, having been able to talk with some of the people there, I'm convinced that WC was focused first and foremost on truth-seeking and quality at this point in their life (pre-acquisition) — however, the consensus seems to have been that after the NYT acquired them, they started becoming more incentivized to grow revenue, and started to jump the shark.

monksy 6y ago

If you could talk about TCO as in service costs associated, that would be amazing. I.e. A PS4 costs $300.. but after PS+ service costs (to use the features they give you).. that's something like $5/month extra.

hubraumhugo 6y ago

As mentioned below, I'm indeed aggregating professional reviews from different sources like Wirecutter or Gearlabs, there is just not that much data yet. However, this should not be the core focus. After getting enough product submissions from users, I will focus on the cost per month metric. As you said, this could be the true differentiator.

scollet 6y ago

> I don't think the comparison to Rotten Tomatoes makes sense... That went a totally different direction than I was expecting.

cptaj 6y ago

Another thought is comparing its durability with just buying more of a cheaper version. If I have a 500 shoe, does it last the same as 5 similar shoes in a row?