5 ms·

In the end how much did you really save?

kamaal 6y ago
Well part of the reasons for all this is my salary was low, and I set myself fairly ambitious savings goals. But in Bay Area, rents are brutal and eat into most of your savings. In some cases even with sharing accommodation with people you end up paying like 15% - 25% of your paycheck(added utilities, general toiletries, home utilities, starting furniture, utensils and other expenses). Then of course internet expenses, phone bills, and coins for the washing machine. Add food and transit. I lived fairly minimal, like I didn't even have a mattress/comforter(sleeping on home carpet, with a pillow), given I was changing residence every 8 months. Only real things I owned was phone, laptop, clothes and a harmonica. Its not constant, because during yearly bonus time you make a little extra. And when you visit home, you carry some gifts for people back there. I also made sure family back home was taken care off really really well. But I was able to save a lot. Like able to go close and sometimes above 60% of the net paycheck most months. Keep in my I arrived to us with $200, a job and a suitcase with clothes.
- richrichardsson 6y ago
  I understand that this was an amazing opportunity for you, but your every response in this sub-thread has just cemented the argument that someone like yourself going to the States reinforced the idea that "accepting life (and probably work) conditions that few Americans would accept willingly. So you're lowering their living standards and probably their average pay". This not meant as a personal dig at you, I'm glad that it worked out well for you.
  - kamaal 6y ago
    >>reinforced the idea that "accepting life (and probably work) conditions that few Americans would accept willingly. You are either incredible naive or just blind to the plight of your own country men. Do you know how many homeless people there are in the Bay Area? Have you ever seen black people working at Target or Walmart? Have you bothered talking to janitors at your office. Try talking to these people and see how life is going on for them. Sure its not comparable to what I did, but they have their own struggles and life is quite hard for them. Try talking to them and see what they think about those 'rich guys'(programmers). The living standards you talk about are really for white people hailing from upper middle to rich class white families. Not every one has a $1.5 million home in San Ramon, Cupertino or Morgan Hill. Not everyone has a Tesla and a minivan for kids. I'm not lowering the standards for anybody, If Im living that way, then there are already people for whom the VTA pass, coupons and timberland shoes were made. I'm just fitting in. You also can't fault me for not spending money like the way others do. If things in your society came at minimal standard of living acceptable to everyone, then everyone would be already living at those standards. So tomorrow if people waiting tables at Starbucks or janitors took up programming jobs and lived like me, what would you do? Ban programming jobs for them, and reserve only for people who live the way you like? Also what will you do about things like 'ramen profitability', or people like Elon Musk who at many times have stared at personal bankruptcy and have slept on their office floor.
    - mistahenry 6y ago
      The existence of a system that allows for companies to pay foreign labor well below market puts a downward pressure on compensation for everyone in industries that take advantage of it. You mention that there are Americans who also struggle but I fail to see how that’s an argument in favor of systematic underpaying of foreign workers who are bound to a single employer (modern day indentured servitude). It’s the job of the government to improve the lives of its citizens and to protect their jobs, not to help foreign nationals improve their lives or to help businesses boost their profits at the expense of American salaries. I’m all for immigration and fair pay. I’ve done it myself. But I don’t want to have to live as you described if at all possible. And I prefer that if you are talented enough to make it to the USA then you should be able to profit equally like Americans. If forcing companies to pay equal salaries for foreign nationals stops the inflow of H1Bs, then this means that there are Americans capable of filling the job market. It there’s still unmet need for talent, then foreign nationals will be brought in at fair salaries
      - kamaal 6y ago
        Well of course. As American citizens, its up to you to decide whom you wish have in your country. Its entirely acceptable even if you say one no should be allowed. I definitely won't make point on the lines of 'immigrants built America', its your decision. Nor am I saying that its the job of the US government to improve the lives of people over the globe. Though I believe even without others asking for it, or their consent, Americans are more than happy 'spreading democracy all over the world'. But you can't stop any one living the way they want. There will always be people who will run/swim the extra miles, lift the extra weights, study the extra hours, eat ramen, do more than one job, walk/sleep in the cold, do the side gigs, moonlight their companies in garages. This is not slavery or anything. Slavery is stripping away people's rights without their consent, under the threat of violence. This just people wanting an edge over other humans. And regardless how you wish to live your life, there will always be people looking for that edge. Lastly, I don't thing anyone living their life any way effects your standard of living. Your wages and compensation are decided based on how much effort your willing to put to get into a FANG. People who are willing to do that already make lots of money in a place like Bay Area. The best thing about America, is the society goes lots of distance and makes it easy for people to do anything they want. So that at the end of the you are left with your own choice to make whatever life you want to. No immigrant is coming in your way of 'pursuit of happiness' If you want to earn more money and want to know what's preventing you from getting it, you only have to look at the mirror.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    Born here in the US. Grew up in California. I would have loved to have it as good as our visa friend above (while in the US). Growing up poor can be rough. I can spin a sob story that literally has had folks from across the world reach out and say that they teared up. When I finally broke into programming as a career at nearly 30, my life changed. A couple years into it, I found out I was making 80% of a new hire QA dev on visa where their salary had to be posted in the break room or something. As a back end engineer who was part of a team of 4 writing code that was earning our company over $50M a year, I was surprised that she was making substantially more than me. Turned out minimum salary visa stuff protected her from my salary. I’m now doing better than most, but I’d expect that there are many like me who would just were/are unaware they could make it comfortably as a software developer. Not sure where I was going. Something about more poor Americans would accept those jobs and live crappy conditions if they new how to get them. Those conditions are just “life” for many of us.
    - kamaal 6y ago
      >>Something about more poor Americans would accept those jobs and live crappy conditions if they new how to get them. I feel you. Inertia can be hard to overcome, and if you are coming from a context and are used to your current social conditioning, breaking out of a self defeating loop can be hard. And you deserve credit for making it despite all the problems. But poverty is subject to social conditions where you live, and poverty in the US != poverty in India. In fact the definitions of poverty are not even remotely same.
  - ksk 6y ago
    I would wager that an employer would just shift their office overseas, rather than be forced to increase wages. See what happened to manufacturing around the world. By and large, I think its a quid-pro-quo between the US wanting foreign markets to sell into, and other countries wanting to sell their products, as well as human-resource-services into the US market. But, the US is a saturated market, and so the only growth is in emerging markets. Which also translates indirectly to 401(k) growth...

Well part of the reasons for all this is my salary was low, and I set myself fairly ambitious savings goals. But in Bay Area, rents are brutal and eat into most of your savings. In some cases even with sharing accommodation with people you end up paying like 15% - 25% of your paycheck(added utilities, general toiletries, home utilities, starting furniture, utensils and other expenses). Then of course internet expenses, phone bills, and coins for the washing machine. Add food and transit. I lived fairly minimal, like I didn't even have a mattress/comforter(sleeping on home carpet, with a pillow), given I was changing residence every 8 months. Only real things I owned was phone, laptop, clothes and a harmonica. Its not constant, because during yearly bonus time you make a little extra. And when you visit home, you carry some gifts for people back there. I also made sure family back home was taken care off really really well. But I was able to save a lot. Like able to go close and sometimes above 60% of the net paycheck most months. Keep in my I arrived to us with $200, a job and a suitcase with clothes.

richrichardsson 6y ago
I understand that this was an amazing opportunity for you, but your every response in this sub-thread has just cemented the argument that someone like yourself going to the States reinforced the idea that "accepting life (and probably work) conditions that few Americans would accept willingly. So you're lowering their living standards and probably their average pay". This not meant as a personal dig at you, I'm glad that it worked out well for you.
- kamaal 6y ago
  >>reinforced the idea that "accepting life (and probably work) conditions that few Americans would accept willingly. You are either incredible naive or just blind to the plight of your own country men. Do you know how many homeless people there are in the Bay Area? Have you ever seen black people working at Target or Walmart? Have you bothered talking to janitors at your office. Try talking to these people and see how life is going on for them. Sure its not comparable to what I did, but they have their own struggles and life is quite hard for them. Try talking to them and see what they think about those 'rich guys'(programmers). The living standards you talk about are really for white people hailing from upper middle to rich class white families. Not every one has a $1.5 million home in San Ramon, Cupertino or Morgan Hill. Not everyone has a Tesla and a minivan for kids. I'm not lowering the standards for anybody, If Im living that way, then there are already people for whom the VTA pass, coupons and timberland shoes were made. I'm just fitting in. You also can't fault me for not spending money like the way others do. If things in your society came at minimal standard of living acceptable to everyone, then everyone would be already living at those standards. So tomorrow if people waiting tables at Starbucks or janitors took up programming jobs and lived like me, what would you do? Ban programming jobs for them, and reserve only for people who live the way you like? Also what will you do about things like 'ramen profitability', or people like Elon Musk who at many times have stared at personal bankruptcy and have slept on their office floor.
  - mistahenry 6y ago
    The existence of a system that allows for companies to pay foreign labor well below market puts a downward pressure on compensation for everyone in industries that take advantage of it. You mention that there are Americans who also struggle but I fail to see how that’s an argument in favor of systematic underpaying of foreign workers who are bound to a single employer (modern day indentured servitude). It’s the job of the government to improve the lives of its citizens and to protect their jobs, not to help foreign nationals improve their lives or to help businesses boost their profits at the expense of American salaries. I’m all for immigration and fair pay. I’ve done it myself. But I don’t want to have to live as you described if at all possible. And I prefer that if you are talented enough to make it to the USA then you should be able to profit equally like Americans. If forcing companies to pay equal salaries for foreign nationals stops the inflow of H1Bs, then this means that there are Americans capable of filling the job market. It there’s still unmet need for talent, then foreign nationals will be brought in at fair salaries
    - kamaal 6y ago
      Well of course. As American citizens, its up to you to decide whom you wish have in your country. Its entirely acceptable even if you say one no should be allowed. I definitely won't make point on the lines of 'immigrants built America', its your decision. Nor am I saying that its the job of the US government to improve the lives of people over the globe. Though I believe even without others asking for it, or their consent, Americans are more than happy 'spreading democracy all over the world'. But you can't stop any one living the way they want. There will always be people who will run/swim the extra miles, lift the extra weights, study the extra hours, eat ramen, do more than one job, walk/sleep in the cold, do the side gigs, moonlight their companies in garages. This is not slavery or anything. Slavery is stripping away people's rights without their consent, under the threat of violence. This just people wanting an edge over other humans. And regardless how you wish to live your life, there will always be people looking for that edge. Lastly, I don't thing anyone living their life any way effects your standard of living. Your wages and compensation are decided based on how much effort your willing to put to get into a FANG. People who are willing to do that already make lots of money in a place like Bay Area. The best thing about America, is the society goes lots of distance and makes it easy for people to do anything they want. So that at the end of the you are left with your own choice to make whatever life you want to. No immigrant is coming in your way of 'pursuit of happiness' If you want to earn more money and want to know what's preventing you from getting it, you only have to look at the mirror.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Born here in the US. Grew up in California. I would have loved to have it as good as our visa friend above (while in the US). Growing up poor can be rough. I can spin a sob story that literally has had folks from across the world reach out and say that they teared up. When I finally broke into programming as a career at nearly 30, my life changed. A couple years into it, I found out I was making 80% of a new hire QA dev on visa where their salary had to be posted in the break room or something. As a back end engineer who was part of a team of 4 writing code that was earning our company over $50M a year, I was surprised that she was making substantially more than me. Turned out minimum salary visa stuff protected her from my salary. I’m now doing better than most, but I’d expect that there are many like me who would just were/are unaware they could make it comfortably as a software developer. Not sure where I was going. Something about more poor Americans would accept those jobs and live crappy conditions if they new how to get them. Those conditions are just “life” for many of us.
  - kamaal 6y ago
    >>Something about more poor Americans would accept those jobs and live crappy conditions if they new how to get them. I feel you. Inertia can be hard to overcome, and if you are coming from a context and are used to your current social conditioning, breaking out of a self defeating loop can be hard. And you deserve credit for making it despite all the problems. But poverty is subject to social conditions where you live, and poverty in the US != poverty in India. In fact the definitions of poverty are not even remotely same.
- ksk 6y ago
  I would wager that an employer would just shift their office overseas, rather than be forced to increase wages. See what happened to manufacturing around the world. By and large, I think its a quid-pro-quo between the US wanting foreign markets to sell into, and other countries wanting to sell their products, as well as human-resource-services into the US market. But, the US is a saturated market, and so the only growth is in emerging markets. Which also translates indirectly to 401(k) growth...