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As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000

As a former H1B holder who walked away from a Green Card because being a bonded laborer for 10+ years to a large tech company wasn't my cup of tea I agree 1000% with you on this -> H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. * It's bonded labor of people desperate to get into the western world and/or get into Silicon Valley/US tech scene It only benefits large tech companies A) US citizens have lower salaries (lucky ones) or don't get jobs (unlucky ones) B) H1B workers are paid less and are bonded labor C) US itself loses out because many of those people would have started companies Do you want people starting PinDuoDuo, FlipKart, Meituan Dianping, Shopify type companies in US or in other countries? Then why instead of letting these 'brightest people from around the world' become entrpreneurs in US are you asking them to spend 22 to 35 being bonded labor for data surveillance companies like FB and GOOG???

some_account99 6y ago
Shopify is canadian, Meituan Dianping and PinDuoDuo play in the chinese ecosystem and Flipkart is an indigenous solution for a global south country (it isn't that unique, there are ons of them and they dont bring value to the american economy except spotify). Also there is a huge moral assumption being made by many on HN: non-citizens have the right and a moral imperative to participate in the american economy. It's almost as if america's value as codify by their laws doesnt matter and these folks basically view the issue really not about respecting those laws but about the task of influence.
Traster 6y ago
Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can always return to their home country leaving them at a minimum with a choice between a better job in the US or the same situation they had in their home country anyway. (C) The US gains a bunch of highly intelligent, highly taxable employees who will likely eventually become citizens and can then create startups as well as providing a larger labour pool for the people who are starting companies. All of your critiques are comparing H1B visas against some imaginary system where people can come to work in the US with no restriction, and let's remind ourselves these changes are from a thoroughly anti-immigration administratrion. The alternative to the H1B system is no H1B system, which is why it's been so difficult to reform. There is no law getting out of congress that reduces the restrictions on immigration.
- victor106 6y ago
  I agree with some of your points. If the alternative is no H1B that would be very bad for the US. But I think there’s a middle ground where you can say let’s the keep H1B program but tweak it in a way that benefits the H1B visa holder and American citizens so corporations don’t take advantage of the talent shortage in tech
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    The only way to make it better - do away with H1B and government restrictions on labor of migrants. (Show your passport, geta job and pay taxes - done) But xenophobia will not let that happen.
- jtdev 6y ago
  But that’s not what’s happening... every H1B holder I’ve personally worked with, while being incredibly nice people, required immense oversight to get any useful output from. 1 U.S. developer/manager to 5+ H1B hires seems to be common.
- villgax 6y ago
  Point C is like a slap in the face of entrepreneurship by making it seem that only after X years of 'bonded labour' will these people be worthy of starting up. All companies started off by students who came for an MS/PhD & happened to be successful were borderline of the grey-area w.r.t. laws.
- sickmartian 6y ago
  Point b, "if you don't like it go back to your country"... they might be earning more, but the cost of living is WAY more than in their home country, I agree that they might be able to save some to no go back empty handed or to send back to their family, but why should they suffer in the meantime?

some_account99 6y ago

Shopify is canadian, Meituan Dianping and PinDuoDuo play in the chinese ecosystem and Flipkart is an indigenous solution for a global south country (it isn't that unique, there are ons of them and they dont bring value to the american economy except spotify). Also there is a huge moral assumption being made by many on HN: non-citizens have the right and a moral imperative to participate in the american economy. It's almost as if america's value as codify by their laws doesnt matter and these folks basically view the issue really not about respecting those laws but about the task of influence.

Traster 6y ago

Let me provide the counter (A) The fact that silicon valley gets access to global talent which make sthe companies much more successful and massively increases the number of jobs available providing far more jobs for US citizens than if the visa program didn't exist (B) The H1B visa holders are earning far more than they would get by remaining in their home country, and whilst they're bonded labour in the US they can always return to their home country leaving them at a minimum with a choice between a better job in the US or the same situation they had in their home country anyway. (C) The US gains a bunch of highly intelligent, highly taxable employees who will likely eventually become citizens and can then create startups as well as providing a larger labour pool for the people who are starting companies. All of your critiques are comparing H1B visas against some imaginary system where people can come to work in the US with no restriction, and let's remind ourselves these changes are from a thoroughly anti-immigration administratrion. The alternative to the H1B system is no H1B system, which is why it's been so difficult to reform. There is no law getting out of congress that reduces the restrictions on immigration.

victor106 6y ago
I agree with some of your points. If the alternative is no H1B that would be very bad for the US. But I think there’s a middle ground where you can say let’s the keep H1B program but tweak it in a way that benefits the H1B visa holder and American citizens so corporations don’t take advantage of the talent shortage in tech
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  The only way to make it better - do away with H1B and government restrictions on labor of migrants. (Show your passport, geta job and pay taxes - done) But xenophobia will not let that happen.
jtdev 6y ago
But that’s not what’s happening... every H1B holder I’ve personally worked with, while being incredibly nice people, required immense oversight to get any useful output from. 1 U.S. developer/manager to 5+ H1B hires seems to be common.
villgax 6y ago
Point C is like a slap in the face of entrepreneurship by making it seem that only after X years of 'bonded labour' will these people be worthy of starting up. All companies started off by students who came for an MS/PhD & happened to be successful were borderline of the grey-area w.r.t. laws.
sickmartian 6y ago
Point b, "if you don't like it go back to your country"... they might be earning more, but the cost of living is WAY more than in their home country, I agree that they might be able to save some to no go back empty handed or to send back to their family, but why should they suffer in the meantime?