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I think this is true when we're talking about a large number of immigrants in general, where a significant percentage of them don't have advanced skills (akin t

by jb775 6y ago

I think this is true when we're talking about a large number of immigrants in general, where a significant percentage of them don't have advanced skills (akin to any large sample-size of humans). The dynamic changes entirely when the sample size is comprised mostly of immigrants with advanced skills. If we allowed in 100,000 immigrant astronauts, I think it's safe to say they'd impact the hiring prospects of American astronauts. And they wouldn't consume enough goods and services to spawn new space ventures that create 100,000 new astronaut jobs.

nrmitchi 6y ago
I have a couple things wrong with this statement. 1. You picked a profession which has a _shockingly low number_ of positions, and extreme requirements (including citizenship). This is basically a straw-man argument. 2. Astronauts have an incredibly high bar, and could come to the US if they wanted to anyways. Typically, astronauts have at least one (or multiple) PhDs. If you can get to the US as an astronaut, you are self-sponsor for a EB-1 or an O-1. 3. No, they wouldn't. Astronauts in the US must be (unless things have changed) US citizens. Military astronaut candidates are U.S. citizens and commissioned officers with at least five years of active duty service.
- jb775 6y ago
  Swap out astronaut with a more common highly-skilled occupation and my underlying point still applies.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    Like... software developers? Lawyers? Doctors? Architects? I don't see any of these professions seeing an overwhelming number of would-be immigrants to the point that it would destroy the local demand market for them. And regardless, the point the parent was making is that even if it did, this would be ok, because the broader influx of immigrants would create more demand for all of these professions to the point where it'd be a wash.
ktta 6y ago
Bad analogy and I believe you misunderstood what the parent comment said. They didn't say that an equal number of jobs were created. Just that the wage didn't drop due to the increase in average productivity & new economic activity.
- jb775 6y ago
  In parent's example, the overall wages didn't drop because the immigrants bought stuff in a small geographic area, so more shops opened to sell stuff, and more warehouses were needed to store stuff, etc...and those new jobs were filled by the immigrants. I'm not disagreeing with that. My point is that this isn't how it works when the pool of people is all highly skilled individuals scattered around the country. They end up just working for cheaper than an equally qualified American citizen, driving wages down and competition up.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    If you have data to support that assertion, I'd love to see it. Otherwise it's just unsupported speculation that I believe is incorrect.
redditmigrant 6y ago
We have allowed 100s of thousands of Software Engineer immigrants. Are the hiring prospects of American software engineers impacted? This should be provable with at least a couple of decades of software engineer immigrants coming in.

by jb775 6y ago

nrmitchi 6y ago

I have a couple things wrong with this statement. 1. You picked a profession which has a _shockingly low number_ of positions, and extreme requirements (including citizenship). This is basically a straw-man argument. 2. Astronauts have an incredibly high bar, and could come to the US if they wanted to anyways. Typically, astronauts have at least one (or multiple) PhDs. If you can get to the US as an astronaut, you are self-sponsor for a EB-1 or an O-1. 3. No, they wouldn't. Astronauts in the US must be (unless things have changed) US citizens. Military astronaut candidates are U.S. citizens and commissioned officers with at least five years of active duty service.

jb775 6y ago
Swap out astronaut with a more common highly-skilled occupation and my underlying point still applies.
- kelnos 6y ago
  Like... software developers? Lawyers? Doctors? Architects? I don't see any of these professions seeing an overwhelming number of would-be immigrants to the point that it would destroy the local demand market for them. And regardless, the point the parent was making is that even if it did, this would be ok, because the broader influx of immigrants would create more demand for all of these professions to the point where it'd be a wash.

ktta 6y ago

Bad analogy and I believe you misunderstood what the parent comment said. They didn't say that an equal number of jobs were created. Just that the wage didn't drop due to the increase in average productivity & new economic activity.

jb775 6y ago
In parent's example, the overall wages didn't drop because the immigrants bought stuff in a small geographic area, so more shops opened to sell stuff, and more warehouses were needed to store stuff, etc...and those new jobs were filled by the immigrants. I'm not disagreeing with that. My point is that this isn't how it works when the pool of people is all highly skilled individuals scattered around the country. They end up just working for cheaper than an equally qualified American citizen, driving wages down and competition up.
- kelnos 6y ago
  If you have data to support that assertion, I'd love to see it. Otherwise it's just unsupported speculation that I believe is incorrect.

redditmigrant 6y ago

We have allowed 100s of thousands of Software Engineer immigrants. Are the hiring prospects of American software engineers impacted? This should be provable with at least a couple of decades of software engineer immigrants coming in.