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American visa programs are run for the benefit of americans. Whether or not the visa holder benefits is incidental and not the point of US law.

tshaddox 6y ago
I don't approve of seamlessly replacing "people" with "Americans," and the idea that Americans should not care about whether people from elsewhere are harmed by American policies is vile.
- flurben 6y ago
  Nothing vile about it, it is how all governments around the world operate, for the benefit of their citizens. Does the Indian government care about americans? How about the Chinese?
  - pm90 6y ago
    This isn’t a good comparison, due to differences in population and wealth of different countries. Just because Governments are required to take care of only their citizens interests doesn’t mean that’s the only thing they need to do. Especially considering the people in question here are immigrants who contribute to the economy and society of the US, and are likely to be citizens themselves in the future.
    - flurben 6y ago
      So precisely what level of national wealth does it become a moral imperative to sacrifice the interests of your own people? Americans are constantly being fired and replaced with cheaper h1bs.
      - pm90 6y ago
        Americans lost more manufacturing jobs to China. Americans lost jobs to Europeans after the Marshall Plan rebuilt Europe and kickstarted the European economy. Americans lost jobs when Japan industrialized and dominated the semiconductor industry. Despite Americans losing jobs, the United States Government continued to support other nations on their path to development. Despite losing all those jobs, America continued to prosper, is still the wealthiest nation by far, and most advanced and militarily powerful. Americans are not constantly being fired and replaced by cheaper h1bs. Some are. There is little evidence to support that h1bs have contributed to any kind of large scale wage depression in the technology sector. In fact, wages continue to grow, and most companies are still hiring lots of software engineers. If you don’t have your facts straight, I don’t know what to tell you. You can look at localized instances of job losses caused by companies abusing the system. I can point to localized instances of immigrants on h1bs starting new companies and hiring many Americans. This gets us nowhere. There is no evidence that H1b abuse is causing anywhere near the amount of wage suppression that would cause massive shift in wages across the US tech industry.
      - nsonha 6y ago
        What about the Americans that do get a job, are they all privileged? Sounds like the real reason some Americans dont have a job is either they didn't have the skill or not willing to work for lower wage? There is a thing called career progression. Many people are underpaid earlier in their career but if they are any good it gets better at some point or they at least still get a low paying job. In software if you are a citizen you have great mobility to job hop and get a huge pay bump until limited by your ability.
        nsonha 6y ago
        Btw complains about low paying job in software in the US are bs. US software job market is massively overpriced comparing to the rest of the world, it needs correction to drive real innovation. This is not sustainable at all for start-ups. IMO the software industry is one of the least innovative industries in the world, constantly reinventing the wheel with its copycat programming languages and database software.
    - dudul 6y ago
      H1B holders are not immigrant, and it is very hard to get a green card from an h1b.
      - pm90 6y ago
        It’s a dual intent visa. Most skilled immigration does happen via the h1b route today.
        dudul 6y ago
        And that doesn't mean that most h1b holders become immigrants or citizens, as claimed in the parent.
  - visarga 6y ago
    > Nothing vile about it, it is how all governments around the world operate, for the benefit of their citizens. USA is also part of a larger community of countries, treating their citizens with less dignity is not a smart policy.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
sg47 6y ago
For every job that's done by an immigrant, there are 10 that are moved overseas. Politicians have taught people here to look at the immigrant as the boogeyman while they silently kill regulations that prevent jobs being offshored.

tshaddox 6y ago

I don't approve of seamlessly replacing "people" with "Americans," and the idea that Americans should not care about whether people from elsewhere are harmed by American policies is vile.

flurben 6y ago
Nothing vile about it, it is how all governments around the world operate, for the benefit of their citizens. Does the Indian government care about americans? How about the Chinese?
- pm90 6y ago
  This isn’t a good comparison, due to differences in population and wealth of different countries. Just because Governments are required to take care of only their citizens interests doesn’t mean that’s the only thing they need to do. Especially considering the people in question here are immigrants who contribute to the economy and society of the US, and are likely to be citizens themselves in the future.
  - flurben 6y ago
    So precisely what level of national wealth does it become a moral imperative to sacrifice the interests of your own people? Americans are constantly being fired and replaced with cheaper h1bs.
    - pm90 6y ago
      Americans lost more manufacturing jobs to China. Americans lost jobs to Europeans after the Marshall Plan rebuilt Europe and kickstarted the European economy. Americans lost jobs when Japan industrialized and dominated the semiconductor industry. Despite Americans losing jobs, the United States Government continued to support other nations on their path to development. Despite losing all those jobs, America continued to prosper, is still the wealthiest nation by far, and most advanced and militarily powerful. Americans are not constantly being fired and replaced by cheaper h1bs. Some are. There is little evidence to support that h1bs have contributed to any kind of large scale wage depression in the technology sector. In fact, wages continue to grow, and most companies are still hiring lots of software engineers. If you don’t have your facts straight, I don’t know what to tell you. You can look at localized instances of job losses caused by companies abusing the system. I can point to localized instances of immigrants on h1bs starting new companies and hiring many Americans. This gets us nowhere. There is no evidence that H1b abuse is causing anywhere near the amount of wage suppression that would cause massive shift in wages across the US tech industry.
    - nsonha 6y ago
      What about the Americans that do get a job, are they all privileged? Sounds like the real reason some Americans dont have a job is either they didn't have the skill or not willing to work for lower wage? There is a thing called career progression. Many people are underpaid earlier in their career but if they are any good it gets better at some point or they at least still get a low paying job. In software if you are a citizen you have great mobility to job hop and get a huge pay bump until limited by your ability.
      - nsonha 6y ago
        Btw complains about low paying job in software in the US are bs. US software job market is massively overpriced comparing to the rest of the world, it needs correction to drive real innovation. This is not sustainable at all for start-ups. IMO the software industry is one of the least innovative industries in the world, constantly reinventing the wheel with its copycat programming languages and database software.
  - dudul 6y ago
    H1B holders are not immigrant, and it is very hard to get a green card from an h1b.
    - pm90 6y ago
      It’s a dual intent visa. Most skilled immigration does happen via the h1b route today.
      - dudul 6y ago
        And that doesn't mean that most h1b holders become immigrants or citizens, as claimed in the parent.
- visarga 6y ago
  > Nothing vile about it, it is how all governments around the world operate, for the benefit of their citizens. USA is also part of a larger community of countries, treating their citizens with less dignity is not a smart policy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

sg47 6y ago

For every job that's done by an immigrant, there are 10 that are moved overseas. Politicians have taught people here to look at the immigrant as the boogeyman while they silently kill regulations that prevent jobs being offshored.