4 ms·

It would be simpler to award the limited pool of H1-Bs in order of descending wages, and cross-check with the IRS afterwards to verify those salaries are actual

by fmajid 6y ago

It would be simpler to award the limited pool of H1-Bs in order of descending wages, and cross-check with the IRS afterwards to verify those salaries are actually paid. That would kill all the bottom-feeding body shops.

fredophile 6y ago
That has the added benefit of removing the unpredictability of the current system. Companies would very quickly figure out roughly where the line is and could pay a premium to guarantee their employee gets one of the spots.
cheese65536 6y ago
One issue with this is that it would favor H1B workers working for companies located in high wage areas (the coasts) over low wage areas (mid-west).
- cryptofistMonk 6y ago
  So go for highest percentile wage in the region of the hire
- vostok 6y ago
  I don't really see a problem here. If you are in a low wage area and feel that your workers are as productive as workers in high wage areas then you can pay them a high enough wage that they get a visa. If you don't feel that way then obviously the visa should go to a more productive worker and it doesn't matter that they happen to be in a high wage area.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    > I don't really see a problem here. If you believe immigrants are good for the economy and make everyone richer, strengthening existing companies with their unique talent and expertise and founding many successful new companies, why let rich costal cities get all the benefit when poor cities have a much greater need for an economic boost?
    - some_account99 6y ago
      develop that talent locally, create opportunities.
    - dpoochieni 6y ago
      That's just like your belief, the actual economics do not support this. The only thing that might change is the distribution of economic surplus (as in capital gets a larger share of the economic surplus versus labor). You might argue there will be more surplus, but that's likely not the case, and not for the body shops being discussed.
    - infamouscow 6y ago
      The critical word here is believe. Most people don't believe this statement is true (or, at least as true as you do) because if they did, we probably wouldn't be talking about any of this on HN.
    - AI_WAIFU 6y ago
      Then just route the earnings from the auctions directly to the poor.
- skelseys 6y ago
  Do you think American citizens should be allowed to choose to work in the Bay Area and New York if they want to?
lmz 6y ago
And you need to make sure the salary is not just paid back to the company / its owners. This is a common form of abuse in other countries with a minimum wage requirement for foreigners.
- jopsen 6y ago
  To make paying back the company viable you would also have to commit tax fraud. Doing something like that at scale seems like an easy way to get caught and go to jail.
skelseys 6y ago
Or auction the H1Bs to employers. If skilled foreigners accept lower wages because the right to come to the US is worth something to them, then the price of the visa would settle at around the difference in wages. So overseas workers wouldn't undercut US residents. And the perceived monetary value of living in the US would accrue to the government, not to body shops.
- foolinaround 6y ago
  certain industries might be favored over others in the case of auctions, as they might have more margins, and so, larger purchasing power.
  - skelseys 6y ago
    I mean, that is how money works in general. People or organizations with more of it can outbid those with less of it.
JAlexoid 6y ago
So... Let me get this straight... Do you believe that H1B is not inherently abusive? Do you believe that if US agrees that someone is useful, they shouldn't get residency immediately? Do you think that indentured servitude is a reasonable tool?
- fmajid 6y ago
  If we had a functional immigration system, green cards would be granted in a reasonable time frame (6 to 12 months). H1-Bs are an imperfect substitute, that can be and are abused. Any of the proposed measures would help curb "body shops" that are indeed stealing jobs from Americans, and keep those legit H1-Bs that are plugging holes in the native labor supply. H1-Bs are transferrable, so calling it "indentured servitude" is incorrect, the real reason why H1-Bs usually stick with an employer is the green card sponsorship by the employer, which is not transferrable.

by fmajid 6y ago

fredophile 6y ago

That has the added benefit of removing the unpredictability of the current system. Companies would very quickly figure out roughly where the line is and could pay a premium to guarantee their employee gets one of the spots.

cheese65536 6y ago

One issue with this is that it would favor H1B workers working for companies located in high wage areas (the coasts) over low wage areas (mid-west).

cryptofistMonk 6y ago
So go for highest percentile wage in the region of the hire
vostok 6y ago
I don't really see a problem here. If you are in a low wage area and feel that your workers are as productive as workers in high wage areas then you can pay them a high enough wage that they get a visa. If you don't feel that way then obviously the visa should go to a more productive worker and it doesn't matter that they happen to be in a high wage area.
- michaelt 6y ago
  > I don't really see a problem here. If you believe immigrants are good for the economy and make everyone richer, strengthening existing companies with their unique talent and expertise and founding many successful new companies, why let rich costal cities get all the benefit when poor cities have a much greater need for an economic boost?
  - some_account99 6y ago
    develop that talent locally, create opportunities.
  - dpoochieni 6y ago
    That's just like your belief, the actual economics do not support this. The only thing that might change is the distribution of economic surplus (as in capital gets a larger share of the economic surplus versus labor). You might argue there will be more surplus, but that's likely not the case, and not for the body shops being discussed.
  - infamouscow 6y ago
    The critical word here is believe. Most people don't believe this statement is true (or, at least as true as you do) because if they did, we probably wouldn't be talking about any of this on HN.
  - AI_WAIFU 6y ago
    Then just route the earnings from the auctions directly to the poor.
skelseys 6y ago
Do you think American citizens should be allowed to choose to work in the Bay Area and New York if they want to?

lmz 6y ago

And you need to make sure the salary is not just paid back to the company / its owners. This is a common form of abuse in other countries with a minimum wage requirement for foreigners.

jopsen 6y ago
To make paying back the company viable you would also have to commit tax fraud. Doing something like that at scale seems like an easy way to get caught and go to jail.

skelseys 6y ago

Or auction the H1Bs to employers. If skilled foreigners accept lower wages because the right to come to the US is worth something to them, then the price of the visa would settle at around the difference in wages. So overseas workers wouldn't undercut US residents. And the perceived monetary value of living in the US would accrue to the government, not to body shops.

foolinaround 6y ago
certain industries might be favored over others in the case of auctions, as they might have more margins, and so, larger purchasing power.
- skelseys 6y ago
  I mean, that is how money works in general. People or organizations with more of it can outbid those with less of it.

JAlexoid 6y ago

So... Let me get this straight... Do you believe that H1B is not inherently abusive? Do you believe that if US agrees that someone is useful, they shouldn't get residency immediately? Do you think that indentured servitude is a reasonable tool?

fmajid 6y ago
If we had a functional immigration system, green cards would be granted in a reasonable time frame (6 to 12 months). H1-Bs are an imperfect substitute, that can be and are abused. Any of the proposed measures would help curb "body shops" that are indeed stealing jobs from Americans, and keep those legit H1-Bs that are plugging holes in the native labor supply. H1-Bs are transferrable, so calling it "indentured servitude" is incorrect, the real reason why H1-Bs usually stick with an employer is the green card sponsorship by the employer, which is not transferrable.