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Hootsuite employee fired after speaking out about company's ICE deal

65 points by foofoo55 6y ago

srtjstjsj 6y ago
> Hootsuite issued a statement the next day announcing that it was backing out of the ICE contract. Interesting way to split the difference.
Kednicma 6y ago
Human rights violations weren't a problem; only optics mattered. The contract was a boon initially, and only became a liability because of the media attention. Shameful but typical corporate behavior.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
pornel 6y ago
The interesting bit is that Hootsuite is a B Corp: https://bcorporation.net/ https://bcorporation.net/ > Certified B Corporations are businesses that meet the highest standards of verified social and environmental performance, public transparency, and legal accountability to balance profit and purpose.
- devmunchies 6y ago
  immigration is bad for the planet unless you walk.
  - omegaworks 6y ago
    Density is good for the planet. The Earth's carrying capacity is multiplied with more people in dense cities.
    - blix 6y ago
      Are you so sure? Surely the rest of planet was better off before the advent of agriculture, when density was very low. Increased human carrying capacity does not necesarily mean increases for any other organism. I would think they would tend to be negatively correlated.
      - omegaworks 6y ago
        Second-order effects of densification and development improve the prognosis of many organisms. Birthrate is lower in developed societies, at or below replacement level. Land use is lower in dense, urbanized societies. Overall, cities are better for everything on the planet. If we were hunting and gathering like we did before agriculture not only would we fail to support our current population by several orders of magnitude, we'd hunt and gather other organisms to extinction, just like we did with the mammoth and dodo.
        blix 6y ago
        Which developing countries are rural and sparse but use more land than, say, Germany, where humans use essentially every available piece of land? That hunter-gathering couldn't sustain the current population is not evidence that the planet would be worse off. Neither are birth rates. High population growth rates are a side effect of development, which is usually accompanied with both urbanization and ecological damage. It's a very common story. The dodo was killed off in the 1600s by urban, agricultural Europeans. You might want to revisit some of the data you used to come to your conclusion.
        omegaworks 6y ago
        If the dodo was farmed, it wouldn't be extinct. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        blix 6y ago
        The vast majority of organisms cannot be profitably farmed. Are you suggesting a world devoid of all wildlife but with whole continents of corn and soybean monocultures would be "good for the planet"? Perhaps if your view of which species count is very narrow.
TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
If you don't like a law enforcement agency, then work to elect officials that make the political change you want. Don't use cancel culture to enrage your tribe and shame everyone you disagree with. edit:removal of inaccurate reference to McCarthyism.
- johncena33 6y ago
  Exactly. Last year I went on a date with this person. Her family immigrated to USA when she was 2 years old. Recently for some reason her family didn't get green card. Everyone had to leave USA. Her whole family is disbanded. Parents and siblings are living in different countries. She couldn't join her cousin's wedding because according to USA immigration officials "she has too much ties with USA". Her family was law-abiding, tax-paying and highly-educated. This begs the question. At what point do we care about people who don't have backing of the poiltical outrage machine?
- dogecoinbase 6y ago
  This is not mere dislike of a law enforcement agency. ICE is keeping children in filthy conditions, conducting forced hysterectomies, knowingly deporting people who will be murdered on the other side, and imprisoning people in conditions where they will die from COVID-19. Any association with them whatsoever is anathema to any ethical human.
- chunky1994 6y ago
  Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of the term McCarthyism but I fail to see how this can be classified as such. I agree with your thesis and conclusion about electoral responsibility and cancel culture. However, isn't McCarthyism necessarily the use of spurious accusations to incite such tribal enragement, as opposed to the use of the proven claim of HootSuite actually having said ICE contract?
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    You are right, McCarthyism was the incorrect language to use. Thanks!
  - 6y ago
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
"That we are eagerly accepting money from an organization that is allegedly subjecting its female detainees to forced hysterectomies, that has a documented history of locking children in cages, that tears families apart and destroys lives is devastating and disgusting," she wrote at the time." Then why were you working there? Meanwhile, you still live in a civilization that exists only because it was able to conquer both nature and competitor civilizations — you are a party to genocide and ecocide. If you had as much integrity as your posturing suggests, you'd have removed yourself from that civilization by now. People like this combine a grindingly midwit intelligence with extreme narcissism in ways I find morbidly fascinating.
munk-a 6y ago
Hootsuite has been the center of a bunch of controversies up here in Canada including illegally employing unpaid interns (and employing paid interns without offering relevant training). I don't understand how they've managed to keep hiring when the Vancouver market is so full of better alternatives.
- acrooks 6y ago
  It is considered among the most "fun" tech companies to work for in Vancouver. Its beautiful office, nap rooms, free Yoga and other exercise classes, meals, rooftop happy hours, as well as a general party culture. The lifestyle side of Hootsuite attracted young people and made them willing to take some of the lowest tech salaries in Vancouver. However, my latest litmus test on this was admittedly around two years ago: all of my friends who worked at Hootsuite have since moved onto other jobs, the core leadership has completely changed over the past couple years, and most early employees are now gone as well.
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
For context, this employee spoke out negatively against Hootsuite, her employer, for taking a contract with ICE that she objected to: https://twitter.com/samelaanderson/status/1308917007438483457 https://twitter.com/samelaanderson/status/130891700743848345... Her Twitter thread has over 10,000 retweets. I can respect someone taking the initiative to speak out against business choices they disagree with, but you can't openly start a social media campaign against your employer and expect to keep your job.
- cam_l 6y ago
  >but you can't openly start a social media campaign against your employer and expect to keep your job. Provided 1. the information is public, 2. You do this on your own time, and 3. you do not reference your position as an employee in the context of your campaign, I really do not see why not.* What is the point of freedom of political speech if your employer can trample all over it? How long until employers just mandate in contracts that all political speech must be cleared by HR? *generally speaking of course, I did not read that twitter thread.
- echlebek 6y ago
  You should be able to expect it, and you should be able to keep it. Tech employees, especially Canadian tech employees, must unionize.

65 points by foofoo55 6y ago

> Hootsuite issued a statement the next day announcing that it was backing out of the ICE contract. Interesting way to split the difference.

Kednicma 6y ago

Human rights violations weren't a problem; only optics mattered. The contract was a boon initially, and only became a liability because of the media attention. Shameful but typical corporate behavior.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

pornel 6y ago

The interesting bit is that Hootsuite is a B Corp: https://bcorporation.net/ https://bcorporation.net/ > Certified B Corporations are businesses that meet the highest standards of verified social and environmental performance, public transparency, and legal accountability to balance profit and purpose.

devmunchies 6y ago
immigration is bad for the planet unless you walk.
- omegaworks 6y ago
  Density is good for the planet. The Earth's carrying capacity is multiplied with more people in dense cities.
  - blix 6y ago
    Are you so sure? Surely the rest of planet was better off before the advent of agriculture, when density was very low. Increased human carrying capacity does not necesarily mean increases for any other organism. I would think they would tend to be negatively correlated.
    - omegaworks 6y ago
      Second-order effects of densification and development improve the prognosis of many organisms. Birthrate is lower in developed societies, at or below replacement level. Land use is lower in dense, urbanized societies. Overall, cities are better for everything on the planet. If we were hunting and gathering like we did before agriculture not only would we fail to support our current population by several orders of magnitude, we'd hunt and gather other organisms to extinction, just like we did with the mammoth and dodo.
      - blix 6y ago
        Which developing countries are rural and sparse but use more land than, say, Germany, where humans use essentially every available piece of land? That hunter-gathering couldn't sustain the current population is not evidence that the planet would be worse off. Neither are birth rates. High population growth rates are a side effect of development, which is usually accompanied with both urbanization and ecological damage. It's a very common story. The dodo was killed off in the 1600s by urban, agricultural Europeans. You might want to revisit some of the data you used to come to your conclusion.
        omegaworks 6y ago
        If the dodo was farmed, it wouldn't be extinct. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        blix 6y ago
        The vast majority of organisms cannot be profitably farmed. Are you suggesting a world devoid of all wildlife but with whole continents of corn and soybean monocultures would be "good for the planet"? Perhaps if your view of which species count is very narrow.

TheAdamAndChe 6y ago

If you don't like a law enforcement agency, then work to elect officials that make the political change you want. Don't use cancel culture to enrage your tribe and shame everyone you disagree with. edit:removal of inaccurate reference to McCarthyism.

johncena33 6y ago
Exactly. Last year I went on a date with this person. Her family immigrated to USA when she was 2 years old. Recently for some reason her family didn't get green card. Everyone had to leave USA. Her whole family is disbanded. Parents and siblings are living in different countries. She couldn't join her cousin's wedding because according to USA immigration officials "she has too much ties with USA". Her family was law-abiding, tax-paying and highly-educated. This begs the question. At what point do we care about people who don't have backing of the poiltical outrage machine?
dogecoinbase 6y ago
This is not mere dislike of a law enforcement agency. ICE is keeping children in filthy conditions, conducting forced hysterectomies, knowingly deporting people who will be murdered on the other side, and imprisoning people in conditions where they will die from COVID-19. Any association with them whatsoever is anathema to any ethical human.
chunky1994 6y ago
Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of the term McCarthyism but I fail to see how this can be classified as such. I agree with your thesis and conclusion about electoral responsibility and cancel culture. However, isn't McCarthyism necessarily the use of spurious accusations to incite such tribal enragement, as opposed to the use of the proven claim of HootSuite actually having said ICE contract?
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  You are right, McCarthyism was the incorrect language to use. Thanks!
- 6y ago

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago

"That we are eagerly accepting money from an organization that is allegedly subjecting its female detainees to forced hysterectomies, that has a documented history of locking children in cages, that tears families apart and destroys lives is devastating and disgusting," she wrote at the time." Then why were you working there? Meanwhile, you still live in a civilization that exists only because it was able to conquer both nature and competitor civilizations — you are a party to genocide and ecocide. If you had as much integrity as your posturing suggests, you'd have removed yourself from that civilization by now. People like this combine a grindingly midwit intelligence with extreme narcissism in ways I find morbidly fascinating.

munk-a 6y ago

Hootsuite has been the center of a bunch of controversies up here in Canada including illegally employing unpaid interns (and employing paid interns without offering relevant training). I don't understand how they've managed to keep hiring when the Vancouver market is so full of better alternatives.

acrooks 6y ago
It is considered among the most "fun" tech companies to work for in Vancouver. Its beautiful office, nap rooms, free Yoga and other exercise classes, meals, rooftop happy hours, as well as a general party culture. The lifestyle side of Hootsuite attracted young people and made them willing to take some of the lowest tech salaries in Vancouver. However, my latest litmus test on this was admittedly around two years ago: all of my friends who worked at Hootsuite have since moved onto other jobs, the core leadership has completely changed over the past couple years, and most early employees are now gone as well.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

For context, this employee spoke out negatively against Hootsuite, her employer, for taking a contract with ICE that she objected to: https://twitter.com/samelaanderson/status/1308917007438483457 https://twitter.com/samelaanderson/status/130891700743848345... Her Twitter thread has over 10,000 retweets. I can respect someone taking the initiative to speak out against business choices they disagree with, but you can't openly start a social media campaign against your employer and expect to keep your job.

cam_l 6y ago
>but you can't openly start a social media campaign against your employer and expect to keep your job. Provided 1. the information is public, 2. You do this on your own time, and 3. you do not reference your position as an employee in the context of your campaign, I really do not see why not.* What is the point of freedom of political speech if your employer can trample all over it? How long until employers just mandate in contracts that all political speech must be cleared by HR? *generally speaking of course, I did not read that twitter thread.
echlebek 6y ago
You should be able to expect it, and you should be able to keep it. Tech employees, especially Canadian tech employees, must unionize.