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They weren't writing it down "retroactively" but contemporaneously. The first priests on the British isles who escaped being slaughtered in their monasteries by

They weren't writing it down "retroactively" but contemporaneously. The first priests on the British isles who escaped being slaughtered in their monasteries by Vikings straight away wrote down that the perpetrators were "pirates" and promptly sent notice out to the rest of what was then England. We aren't talking about where the Anglo-Saxon word for "pirate" came from. We're talking about where the word "Viking" came from. It clearly came from the Anglo-Saxon word, "Wicing."

thaumasiotes 6y ago
> We aren't talking about where the Anglo-Saxon word for "pirate" came from. We're talking about where the word "Viking" came from. It clearly came from the Anglo-Saxon word, "Wicing." They appear to be the same word. That's not an answer. I could tell you that the modern word "laser" came from the older form LASER, but that would be stupid. You're trying to terminate the question before it's even begun. Note that in fact the modern word "Viking" is not obviously related to the Old English "wicing"; that term died out. Modern "Viking" is taken directly from later Norse by modern historians. Unless you're claiming the Norse borrowed it from the British? > They weren't writing it down "retroactively" but contemporaneously. You are simultaneously arguing that 1. The British referred to Norse pirates using a term that looks like "Viking", which we know because they wrote it down at the time. 2. The Norse, hundreds of years later, also had a term that looks like "Viking". 3. We know the Norse didn't use that term at the time the invaded Britons were using it, because they didn't write it down. ("The primary sources clearly indicate that the first appearance was...") 4. In fact, interesting side note, the Norse of the time didn't write anything down. I could go on to conclude that they couldn't speak. Or I could conclude that the primary sources don't have anything to say about where this word first appeared, because it is closely related to an almost entirely illiterate culture.
- staticautomatic 6y ago
  There is no primary evidence that the word Viking originated from some word other than the Anglo -Saxon word. If you’ve found some feel feel to share.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    I mean, I can refer you to https://www.etymonline.com/word/Viking https://www.etymonline.com/word/Viking : > Scandinavian pirate, 1801, vikingr, in "The History of the Anglo-Saxons" by English historian Sharon H. Turner; he suggested the second element might be connected to king: But this later was dismissed as incorrect. The form viking is attested in 1820 The word "wicing" of Old English has no modern descendant; it was not used for the period of several centuries between then and 1800. This is well known. As noted in the entry, in modern use it first appears with the Norse nominative -r suffix included! What kind of primary evidence were you thinking of?
    - staticautomatic 6y ago
      I'm taking you up on your bet. I just downloaded that Turner book. It doesn't say where the word came from at all. The earliest primary citation for the word "vikingr" is in reference to a saga written by Snorre/Snorri (an Icelandic historian), who was born in the late 12th century. "Wicing" dates to the 11th century (see Sea Wolves, A History of the Vikings; you're welcome to go down that primary cite rabbit hole yourself).
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        The word "vikingr" can only come from Norse, as I already mentioned, because it includes a Norse inflection, the nominative case suffix. The modern word "viking" similarly cannot come from an Old English word "wicing", because Old English /w/ does not become modern /v/. The only words beginning with /v/ in modern English that come from Old English began with /f/ then. Compare "wit", "will", "water", "wife", etc. etc. etc. etc.
        staticautomatic 6y ago
        My point is simply this: As far as the primary sources go, we have, as of the 1000's, an Anglo-Saxon word "wicing" that looks nearly identical to "viking" and would have been pronounced "wy-ching." As of at least 100 years later, in what may have been an Icelandic dialect of Old Norse, we have a word "vikingr", which would have been pronounced "veek-een-grr" with a trilled "r". The only other thing we know is that Old Norse had a word "vic". I don't think we can rule out that the word "viking" was invented by the Norse, but based on the above information alone, I don't think we can reasonably conclude that it must have been.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

> We aren't talking about where the Anglo-Saxon word for "pirate" came from. We're talking about where the word "Viking" came from. It clearly came from the Anglo-Saxon word, "Wicing." They appear to be the same word. That's not an answer. I could tell you that the modern word "laser" came from the older form LASER, but that would be stupid. You're trying to terminate the question before it's even begun. Note that in fact the modern word "Viking" is not obviously related to the Old English "wicing"; that term died out. Modern "Viking" is taken directly from later Norse by modern historians. Unless you're claiming the Norse borrowed it from the British? > They weren't writing it down "retroactively" but contemporaneously. You are simultaneously arguing that 1. The British referred to Norse pirates using a term that looks like "Viking", which we know because they wrote it down at the time. 2. The Norse, hundreds of years later, also had a term that looks like "Viking". 3. We know the Norse didn't use that term at the time the invaded Britons were using it, because they didn't write it down. ("The primary sources clearly indicate that the first appearance was...") 4. In fact, interesting side note, the Norse of the time didn't write anything down. I could go on to conclude that they couldn't speak. Or I could conclude that the primary sources don't have anything to say about where this word first appeared, because it is closely related to an almost entirely illiterate culture.

staticautomatic 6y ago
There is no primary evidence that the word Viking originated from some word other than the Anglo -Saxon word. If you’ve found some feel feel to share.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  I mean, I can refer you to https://www.etymonline.com/word/Viking https://www.etymonline.com/word/Viking : > Scandinavian pirate, 1801, vikingr, in "The History of the Anglo-Saxons" by English historian Sharon H. Turner; he suggested the second element might be connected to king: But this later was dismissed as incorrect. The form viking is attested in 1820 The word "wicing" of Old English has no modern descendant; it was not used for the period of several centuries between then and 1800. This is well known. As noted in the entry, in modern use it first appears with the Norse nominative -r suffix included! What kind of primary evidence were you thinking of?
  - staticautomatic 6y ago
    I'm taking you up on your bet. I just downloaded that Turner book. It doesn't say where the word came from at all. The earliest primary citation for the word "vikingr" is in reference to a saga written by Snorre/Snorri (an Icelandic historian), who was born in the late 12th century. "Wicing" dates to the 11th century (see Sea Wolves, A History of the Vikings; you're welcome to go down that primary cite rabbit hole yourself).
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      The word "vikingr" can only come from Norse, as I already mentioned, because it includes a Norse inflection, the nominative case suffix. The modern word "viking" similarly cannot come from an Old English word "wicing", because Old English /w/ does not become modern /v/. The only words beginning with /v/ in modern English that come from Old English began with /f/ then. Compare "wit", "will", "water", "wife", etc. etc. etc. etc.
      - staticautomatic 6y ago
        My point is simply this: As far as the primary sources go, we have, as of the 1000's, an Anglo-Saxon word "wicing" that looks nearly identical to "viking" and would have been pronounced "wy-ching." As of at least 100 years later, in what may have been an Icelandic dialect of Old Norse, we have a word "vikingr", which would have been pronounced "veek-een-grr" with a trilled "r". The only other thing we know is that Old Norse had a word "vic". I don't think we can rule out that the word "viking" was invented by the Norse, but based on the above information alone, I don't think we can reasonably conclude that it must have been.