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In reality, other nations use the force of law to restrict the free market in their domain forcing countries that have more fair and free markets like the US to

In reality, other nations use the force of law to restrict the free market in their domain forcing countries that have more fair and free markets like the US to subsidize the other countries' artificially set prices. I am not saying the drug companies have no blame to shoulder, they have plenty. Just know that this isn't just a simple case of an evil capitalist trying to price gouge.

adwww 6y ago
I'm not convinced that's true. If the market really is free and fair, and the price is currently 8 times more than elsewhere, why are foreign pharmaceutical companies not flooding the US market? Why are there not dozens of silicon valley startups springing up to 'disrupt' this market - clearly there are large margins to be made given the price is so much higher at the moment. It sounds more like some regulatory capture has happened which is keeping prices artificially high, than that all other countries are artificially low.
- cplanas 6y ago
  > It sounds more like some regulatory capture has happened which is keeping prices artificially high This. Not sure if it's a system bug, or a feature: the system may have been designed for this to happen.
- warkdarrior 6y ago
  One cannot import drugs into US unless they get FDA approval for that particular drug from that particular manufacturer from that particular country.
  - adwww 6y ago
    Which somewhat undermines the original claim that the US market is more free and fair than any other...
i_haz_rabies 6y ago
Wait, you mean the low international price of a medicine that was developed and given to humanity for free is now somehow a burden on US drug companies? I doubt it.
- coredog64 6y ago
  The original insulin that is off-patent is very cheap. What is expensive in the US is newer versions that are safer and more effective.
TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
How exactly do other countries do this? And what is the "fair and free" price of insulin?
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
  > How exactly do other countries do this? Almost all wealthy countries except the US, use a single payer system where the government sets the price of drugs. > And what is the "fair and free" price of insulin? Free as a victim of diabetes, some marginal cost to the countries budget based on a negotiation with the pharma company. Typically, because the country has enough scale, it is cost effective for the government to design and estimate costs for a government run facility to produce the drug and use that as a bargaining chip including if needed voiding the IP rights of that foreign entity for national defense reasons.
  - mrep 6y ago
    > Typically, because the country has enough scale, it is cost effective for the government to design and estimate costs for a government run facility to produce the drug and use that as a bargaining chip including if needed voiding the IP rights of that foreign entity for national defense reasons. You got a link about that because I am super interested to read into that more. I believe india doesn't respect medical IP but I'm surprised first world countries that produce medical IP do and that the US apparently isn't ripping off foreign countries medical IP who do that in retaliation.
    - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
      I was just using anecdotal stuff I've heard about before. A quick search brought up: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.20.3.92 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.20.3.... I haven't cross checked it, but it seems to state similar things to what I've heard before, like “compulsory licensing” which was only un-done because of NAFTA, but that just means its a political bargaining chip that is not currently cashed. I'm sure other countries have different rules, Canada is more beholden to the US than any other country.
jahaja 6y ago
Why would the "free market" be the most important in the first place?
rland 6y ago
Insulin lispro was under $50 a vial sticker price the day it came out. One price is set artificially and it ain't the one you're thinking of.
ckocagil 6y ago
Profit margins aren't a "the total shall be X billion USD" division across countries. Making less profit in one country has nothing to do with what your profit margin will be in another one. Prices are always set to maximize profit, and what the customer is willing to pay you is the biggest factor in the equation.
QuesnayJr 6y ago
If using the force of law makes something 8 times cheaper than the free market, then so much the worse for the free market. The whole argument in favor of the free market -- which holds for most products -- is that market competition can provide things cheaper than government fiat. If the market can't do that in this instance, then who needs it?

adwww 6y ago

I'm not convinced that's true. If the market really is free and fair, and the price is currently 8 times more than elsewhere, why are foreign pharmaceutical companies not flooding the US market? Why are there not dozens of silicon valley startups springing up to 'disrupt' this market - clearly there are large margins to be made given the price is so much higher at the moment. It sounds more like some regulatory capture has happened which is keeping prices artificially high, than that all other countries are artificially low.

cplanas 6y ago
> It sounds more like some regulatory capture has happened which is keeping prices artificially high This. Not sure if it's a system bug, or a feature: the system may have been designed for this to happen.
warkdarrior 6y ago
One cannot import drugs into US unless they get FDA approval for that particular drug from that particular manufacturer from that particular country.
- adwww 6y ago
  Which somewhat undermines the original claim that the US market is more free and fair than any other...

i_haz_rabies 6y ago

Wait, you mean the low international price of a medicine that was developed and given to humanity for free is now somehow a burden on US drug companies? I doubt it.

coredog64 6y ago
The original insulin that is off-patent is very cheap. What is expensive in the US is newer versions that are safer and more effective.

TheOtherHobbes 6y ago

How exactly do other countries do this? And what is the "fair and free" price of insulin?

yazaddaruvala 6y ago
> How exactly do other countries do this? Almost all wealthy countries except the US, use a single payer system where the government sets the price of drugs. > And what is the "fair and free" price of insulin? Free as a victim of diabetes, some marginal cost to the countries budget based on a negotiation with the pharma company. Typically, because the country has enough scale, it is cost effective for the government to design and estimate costs for a government run facility to produce the drug and use that as a bargaining chip including if needed voiding the IP rights of that foreign entity for national defense reasons.
- mrep 6y ago
  > Typically, because the country has enough scale, it is cost effective for the government to design and estimate costs for a government run facility to produce the drug and use that as a bargaining chip including if needed voiding the IP rights of that foreign entity for national defense reasons. You got a link about that because I am super interested to read into that more. I believe india doesn't respect medical IP but I'm surprised first world countries that produce medical IP do and that the US apparently isn't ripping off foreign countries medical IP who do that in retaliation.
  - yazaddaruvala 6y ago
    I was just using anecdotal stuff I've heard about before. A quick search brought up: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.20.3.92 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.20.3.... I haven't cross checked it, but it seems to state similar things to what I've heard before, like “compulsory licensing” which was only un-done because of NAFTA, but that just means its a political bargaining chip that is not currently cashed. I'm sure other countries have different rules, Canada is more beholden to the US than any other country.

jahaja 6y ago

Why would the "free market" be the most important in the first place?

rland 6y ago

Insulin lispro was under $50 a vial sticker price the day it came out. One price is set artificially and it ain't the one you're thinking of.

ckocagil 6y ago

Profit margins aren't a "the total shall be X billion USD" division across countries. Making less profit in one country has nothing to do with what your profit margin will be in another one. Prices are always set to maximize profit, and what the customer is willing to pay you is the biggest factor in the equation.

QuesnayJr 6y ago

If using the force of law makes something 8 times cheaper than the free market, then so much the worse for the free market. The whole argument in favor of the free market -- which holds for most products -- is that market competition can provide things cheaper than government fiat. If the market can't do that in this instance, then who needs it?