4 ms·

I'm tarring an entire region because I say, truthfully, that I left it because I experienced discrimination there? Can you elaborate the ways I'm obligated to c

I'm tarring an entire region because I say, truthfully, that I left it because I experienced discrimination there? Can you elaborate the ways I'm obligated to caveat and contextualize my experience so I don't hurt other people's feelings by honestly relaying it?

prepend 6y ago
You’re not obligated to do anything, especially not to help me and others better understand you or make your comments useful. “The south” ranges from Virginia to Texas. Maybe you lived everywhere and experienced discrimination everywhere. For me, I grew up in a down of a 1000 people and live just a few hours away in a town with maybe one of the most diverse cultures (including LGBT) in the country. If I said that because I experienced discrimination in my shitkicker little town that the entire south was similar, that would be wrong, and not very helpful to anyone trying to understand the south. I suppose you can avoid absolutes and generalizations if you want to help others. But you definitely aren’t obligated to help anyone. But generalizations jump out at me and annoy me because I’ve frequently encountered jerks saying something about perverts or crime stats and then just fall back on that they were just honestly relating their experience. But there is a difference between my experience and me saying that my experience applies to others. Especially if not backed by data and a suitable generalization.
- scarmig 6y ago
  To be clear, you're accusing me of tarring an entire region for relaying an experience I had in it. I didn't even make any claim that the South is more discriminatory against LGBT people than elsewhere, though if you're going to project that onto me anyway... I guarantee you apply this kind of radical stance against all generalization in a very selective way. Do you get upset if someone says that Russia is a repressive country? Or that California is expensive? Even if I were to give my entire life story, you can always feign offense, claiming "city A 20 miles away from city B is totally different, you can't generalize an entire county!" At some point I'd have to be listing all the individuals I had negative experiences with, and even then, isn't it unfair for me to represent the entirety of their person with a single selective moment of their life?
  - asdff 6y ago
    It's like when people hear a statement like you've made they recoil and assume that 100% of your interactions in a region involve discrimination. What they fail to understand is that the rate you experienced discrimination is higher in these areas than in others. It's a probability, it's clear to me from the context that surely not every interaction of yours in the south is bad, but given drawing a random interaction out of a hat, you are more likely to have a bad one living in Virginia than in New York. Given this reality, I wouldn't want to live in the American South either. There must be some sort of logical block that prevents people from understanding the nuance in these comments, and rushing to defend against absolutes that no one implied existed. I blame a lack of understanding of statistics and probability.
    - scarmig 6y ago
      Exactly. I've also experienced discrimination in San Francisco, for what it's worth! But as soon as you make any statement that it tends to be more common in the South (or even if it's merely implied), people end up triggered and rise up in defense of it.
      - prepend 6y ago
        I’m not defending the south, per se, I’m defending statements like “it tends to be more common in the South.” The experience you described doesn’t seem to me that it justifies saying the south is worse or better than other regions. The reason why you see people jump in the defend the south is that you are making a general statement about an entire region. Here’s what I mean. Someone said that midwesterners are nice to people if they are white. Downthread you share that part of the reason you left the south is because of discrimination you experienced and I think you were pointing out that it was odd that people jumped in to defend the south. It seems reasonable that people would try to more accurately describe the south and share their experiences as well. Saying people are triggered seems to belittle their input. If I want more input I don’t call you triggered for feeling compelled to share info. This is totally different if you think that there actually is some higher level of discrimination in the south or midwest or wherever. But I don’t think your anecdote isn’t really that helpful for tarring or exonerating a region. Despite how true or honest it may be.
DetroitThrow 6y ago
Being more specific about the locale would help. Nashville is not Atlanta, NOLA is not Tampa when it comes to flavors of discriminatory attitudes - and rural or suburban attitudes are different as well. Describing where you went to for relief also adds even more context.
- nilkn 6y ago
  Not to mention Houston, for instance, is one of the most diverse cities in the entire country -- more diverse than much of CA. It's also one of the largest and most iconic cities of the South.
  - asdff 6y ago
    Houston remains one of the most segregated cities in the entire country.
    - nilkn 6y ago
      This page ranks it 18th in that regard: https://cityobservatory.org/most_segregated/ https://cityobservatory.org/most_segregated/ Of note, LA is measured as being more segregated than Houston.
- specialist 6y ago
  Memo: There's a gradient from liberal urban islands to the surrounding regressive rural areas. With some exceptions. Surprised?
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Not tarring, maybe he was just pointing out the unconscious bias of the statement not being more elusive.

prepend 6y ago

You’re not obligated to do anything, especially not to help me and others better understand you or make your comments useful. “The south” ranges from Virginia to Texas. Maybe you lived everywhere and experienced discrimination everywhere. For me, I grew up in a down of a 1000 people and live just a few hours away in a town with maybe one of the most diverse cultures (including LGBT) in the country. If I said that because I experienced discrimination in my shitkicker little town that the entire south was similar, that would be wrong, and not very helpful to anyone trying to understand the south. I suppose you can avoid absolutes and generalizations if you want to help others. But you definitely aren’t obligated to help anyone. But generalizations jump out at me and annoy me because I’ve frequently encountered jerks saying something about perverts or crime stats and then just fall back on that they were just honestly relating their experience. But there is a difference between my experience and me saying that my experience applies to others. Especially if not backed by data and a suitable generalization.

scarmig 6y ago
To be clear, you're accusing me of tarring an entire region for relaying an experience I had in it. I didn't even make any claim that the South is more discriminatory against LGBT people than elsewhere, though if you're going to project that onto me anyway... I guarantee you apply this kind of radical stance against all generalization in a very selective way. Do you get upset if someone says that Russia is a repressive country? Or that California is expensive? Even if I were to give my entire life story, you can always feign offense, claiming "city A 20 miles away from city B is totally different, you can't generalize an entire county!" At some point I'd have to be listing all the individuals I had negative experiences with, and even then, isn't it unfair for me to represent the entirety of their person with a single selective moment of their life?
- asdff 6y ago
  It's like when people hear a statement like you've made they recoil and assume that 100% of your interactions in a region involve discrimination. What they fail to understand is that the rate you experienced discrimination is higher in these areas than in others. It's a probability, it's clear to me from the context that surely not every interaction of yours in the south is bad, but given drawing a random interaction out of a hat, you are more likely to have a bad one living in Virginia than in New York. Given this reality, I wouldn't want to live in the American South either. There must be some sort of logical block that prevents people from understanding the nuance in these comments, and rushing to defend against absolutes that no one implied existed. I blame a lack of understanding of statistics and probability.
  - scarmig 6y ago
    Exactly. I've also experienced discrimination in San Francisco, for what it's worth! But as soon as you make any statement that it tends to be more common in the South (or even if it's merely implied), people end up triggered and rise up in defense of it.
    - prepend 6y ago
      I’m not defending the south, per se, I’m defending statements like “it tends to be more common in the South.” The experience you described doesn’t seem to me that it justifies saying the south is worse or better than other regions. The reason why you see people jump in the defend the south is that you are making a general statement about an entire region. Here’s what I mean. Someone said that midwesterners are nice to people if they are white. Downthread you share that part of the reason you left the south is because of discrimination you experienced and I think you were pointing out that it was odd that people jumped in to defend the south. It seems reasonable that people would try to more accurately describe the south and share their experiences as well. Saying people are triggered seems to belittle their input. If I want more input I don’t call you triggered for feeling compelled to share info. This is totally different if you think that there actually is some higher level of discrimination in the south or midwest or wherever. But I don’t think your anecdote isn’t really that helpful for tarring or exonerating a region. Despite how true or honest it may be.

DetroitThrow 6y ago

Being more specific about the locale would help. Nashville is not Atlanta, NOLA is not Tampa when it comes to flavors of discriminatory attitudes - and rural or suburban attitudes are different as well. Describing where you went to for relief also adds even more context.

nilkn 6y ago
Not to mention Houston, for instance, is one of the most diverse cities in the entire country -- more diverse than much of CA. It's also one of the largest and most iconic cities of the South.
- asdff 6y ago
  Houston remains one of the most segregated cities in the entire country.
  - nilkn 6y ago
    This page ranks it 18th in that regard: https://cityobservatory.org/most_segregated/ https://cityobservatory.org/most_segregated/ Of note, LA is measured as being more segregated than Houston.
specialist 6y ago
Memo: There's a gradient from liberal urban islands to the surrounding regressive rural areas. With some exceptions. Surprised?

mensetmanusman 6y ago

Not tarring, maybe he was just pointing out the unconscious bias of the statement not being more elusive.