6 ms·

This is a very consumerist world view (get big house, get fun toys) that not everyone believes in. I choose to live in a more vibrant city where I essentially t

by vdnkh 6y ago

This is a very consumerist world view (get big house, get fun toys) that not everyone believes in. I choose to live in a more vibrant city where I essentially trade my money for opportunity, experiences, and community.

iancmceachern 6y ago
And weather where you can enjoy the outdoors more than 3 months a year.
oblongx 6y ago
to each their own I suppose
mountainb 6y ago
Versus the highly spiritual experience of living in the pod, eating the bugs, paying the $4,500 every month to the landlord of the one bedroom, answering e-mails at 11:24 pm to be able to pay for it etc.
- ethanbond 6y ago
  You oughta go to a better city. Also, non-consumerist does not imply spiritual.
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    Every growing city right now is going to be like that though. Block-after-block of Chipotle, Jamba Juice, and Whole Foods, 5 story apartment buildings with ground floor occupied only by the aforementioned.
- lavishlatern 6y ago
  A 6br lakefront house in Minneapolis is just as expensive as a nice condo in Boston (op literally notes they spent the same amount).
  - qes 6y ago
    In Minneapolis or the close burbs or the fancy farther out burbs (Minnetonka, Wayzata) a 6 br lakefront house in not-great condition is over $1M. If it's a nice house, good shape, way over $1M. But you can go 30 minutes and change outside Minneapolis and get a nice 6 br lakefront for like $750k.
toomuchtodo 6y ago
They could have also sunk all of the equity into index funds, and done the digital nomad thing [1], using investment income to boost quality of life. I believe the point is, don't waste income on servicing housing debt unnecessarily (efficient use of capital). If jet skis and McMansions are your thing, cool. If you'd rather party it up in Medellín, Columbia while living off of dividends, also cool. [1] https://nomadlist.com/cost-of-living/in/ https://nomadlist.com/cost-of-living/in/
nip180 6y ago
Minneapolis would have significantly different opportunities, experiences, and communities than Boston. I’m not sure I’d declare one over the other. In this example having the opportunity to spend a lot of time on or by the lake would be highly desirable, not directly consumerist, and more available in Minneapolis than Boston.
- dogman144 6y ago
  Just on the Boston note, the city wears itself out pretty quickly. COVID is actually showing this strongly. Freedom Trail and related powered a downtown that otherwise died since March. Of course it'll come back whenever it does, but the "real culture" of the areas that aren't total millennial, college, or medical resident playgrounds is up in Cambridge /Somerville. And those two towns are pretty small ultimately with rough commutes into the city. Minneapolis and the like start to grow on me, as it's trading one smallish cultural area for another, but at a fraction of the cost.
cvhashim 6y ago
Agreed. But on the other hand, we live in a connected and distributed world. You could always meet new people and colleagues through virtual networking events, virtual hackathons, even niche subreddits/HN/indiehackers etc.
BurningFrog 6y ago
What do people mean when they say a city is "vibrant"?
- ethanbond 6y ago
  I'm not sure there's any one thing. When I think of New York City, which I would say is not only vibrant but nearly vibrating with energy, it's some combination of the following: * A ton of different languages being spoken within earshot at any one time * Lots of different smells at any one time, some delicious and certainly some much less so * Lots of music where you do and do not expect it, all sorts of different genres sometimes complementing and sometimes juxtaposing the surroundings * People physically moving and speaking faster * The physical tightness of the city probably adds to all of the above But most importantly, I think the above compose into an overall sense of serendipity. The phrase, "in the city, anything is possible" is frequently interpreted to mean, "you can achieve the highest version of what you want to achieve!" I think that's actually incorrect. It means exactly what it says: anything is possible. Relative to suburban or rural areas, you simply have no idea what is coming next minute-to-minute. That, I think, gives a sensation of constantly anticipating serendipity, which we round out to the word "vibrant."
  - jetrink 6y ago
    > "in the city, anything is possible" I am reminded of this and grateful anytime I get interested in a new hobby. I started indoor rock climbing and discovered there are at least six gyms in my city that I can bike to. I got interested in film photography and found there was a great community darkroom with all the equipment needed to develop film and make prints. I discovered I enjoy board games and found there are dozens of clubs that meet regularly that I can choose from, depending on what types of games I like and how competitive I want the atmosphere to be. (Asterisk on all of this currently, due to the pandemic of course.)
    - dogman144 6y ago
      This is a good description of the city intangibles. I think it usually boils down to stuff like this.
swashboon 6y ago
They were on track to be retired by the time they turned 40 by for the most part having very high incomes and very low overhead - they were planning on spending much more time on experiences then they were able to before.
konjin 6y ago
This is a very consumerist world view (get opportunity and experiences) that not everyone believes in. I choose to live frugally so I can drop jobs when I find projects that interest me more than whatever I'm doing at the time. For example I have spent the last week reading a very interesting book on transcendental number theory which is completely pointless for any job but has given me a lot more satisfaction than trying the latest ethnic fusion $500 a plate cuisine my peers seem to go insane over. Were it not for forest fires I would have moved to the mountains since sci-hub has made university libraries largely pointless.
scudd 6y ago
I think many people can resonate with the desire for more physical space than afforded by a city condo. To describe it as "consumerist" seems a little excessive. The ease of access to nature is another huge plus of getting outside the city
dogman144 6y ago
Those 3 tend to have diminishing returns past 35/40, which is around the time lifestyle concerns that more trend towards safety (financial and otherwise) and stability start mattering much, much more. It's like the professional equivalent of finally owning a paid-off car and realizing what a difference it all makes. A nuked mortgage by a tech salary, a home with an extra bedroom that can support your ailing parents who lost their retirements in '08 and then again in '20, a stable school system that balances non-urban but also not bible belt, and the concept of actually being able to save up nearly full college for 3 kids.... all lives in midwestern tech jobs. Of course there are some cultural tradeoffs the less Minneapolis/Chicago and the more Boise/Des Moines you get, but it's a spectrum that's worth considering.

by vdnkh 6y ago

iancmceachern 6y ago

And weather where you can enjoy the outdoors more than 3 months a year.

oblongx 6y ago

to each their own I suppose

mountainb 6y ago

Versus the highly spiritual experience of living in the pod, eating the bugs, paying the $4,500 every month to the landlord of the one bedroom, answering e-mails at 11:24 pm to be able to pay for it etc.

ethanbond 6y ago
You oughta go to a better city. Also, non-consumerist does not imply spiritual.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  Every growing city right now is going to be like that though. Block-after-block of Chipotle, Jamba Juice, and Whole Foods, 5 story apartment buildings with ground floor occupied only by the aforementioned.
lavishlatern 6y ago
A 6br lakefront house in Minneapolis is just as expensive as a nice condo in Boston (op literally notes they spent the same amount).
- qes 6y ago
  In Minneapolis or the close burbs or the fancy farther out burbs (Minnetonka, Wayzata) a 6 br lakefront house in not-great condition is over $1M. If it's a nice house, good shape, way over $1M. But you can go 30 minutes and change outside Minneapolis and get a nice 6 br lakefront for like $750k.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

They could have also sunk all of the equity into index funds, and done the digital nomad thing [1], using investment income to boost quality of life. I believe the point is, don't waste income on servicing housing debt unnecessarily (efficient use of capital). If jet skis and McMansions are your thing, cool. If you'd rather party it up in Medellín, Columbia while living off of dividends, also cool. [1] https://nomadlist.com/cost-of-living/in/ https://nomadlist.com/cost-of-living/in/

nip180 6y ago

Minneapolis would have significantly different opportunities, experiences, and communities than Boston. I’m not sure I’d declare one over the other. In this example having the opportunity to spend a lot of time on or by the lake would be highly desirable, not directly consumerist, and more available in Minneapolis than Boston.

dogman144 6y ago
Just on the Boston note, the city wears itself out pretty quickly. COVID is actually showing this strongly. Freedom Trail and related powered a downtown that otherwise died since March. Of course it'll come back whenever it does, but the "real culture" of the areas that aren't total millennial, college, or medical resident playgrounds is up in Cambridge /Somerville. And those two towns are pretty small ultimately with rough commutes into the city. Minneapolis and the like start to grow on me, as it's trading one smallish cultural area for another, but at a fraction of the cost.

cvhashim 6y ago

Agreed. But on the other hand, we live in a connected and distributed world. You could always meet new people and colleagues through virtual networking events, virtual hackathons, even niche subreddits/HN/indiehackers etc.

BurningFrog 6y ago

What do people mean when they say a city is "vibrant"?

ethanbond 6y ago
I'm not sure there's any one thing. When I think of New York City, which I would say is not only vibrant but nearly vibrating with energy, it's some combination of the following: * A ton of different languages being spoken within earshot at any one time * Lots of different smells at any one time, some delicious and certainly some much less so * Lots of music where you do and do not expect it, all sorts of different genres sometimes complementing and sometimes juxtaposing the surroundings * People physically moving and speaking faster * The physical tightness of the city probably adds to all of the above But most importantly, I think the above compose into an overall sense of serendipity. The phrase, "in the city, anything is possible" is frequently interpreted to mean, "you can achieve the highest version of what you want to achieve!" I think that's actually incorrect. It means exactly what it says: anything is possible. Relative to suburban or rural areas, you simply have no idea what is coming next minute-to-minute. That, I think, gives a sensation of constantly anticipating serendipity, which we round out to the word "vibrant."
- jetrink 6y ago
  > "in the city, anything is possible" I am reminded of this and grateful anytime I get interested in a new hobby. I started indoor rock climbing and discovered there are at least six gyms in my city that I can bike to. I got interested in film photography and found there was a great community darkroom with all the equipment needed to develop film and make prints. I discovered I enjoy board games and found there are dozens of clubs that meet regularly that I can choose from, depending on what types of games I like and how competitive I want the atmosphere to be. (Asterisk on all of this currently, due to the pandemic of course.)
  - dogman144 6y ago
    This is a good description of the city intangibles. I think it usually boils down to stuff like this.

swashboon 6y ago

They were on track to be retired by the time they turned 40 by for the most part having very high incomes and very low overhead - they were planning on spending much more time on experiences then they were able to before.

konjin 6y ago

This is a very consumerist world view (get opportunity and experiences) that not everyone believes in. I choose to live frugally so I can drop jobs when I find projects that interest me more than whatever I'm doing at the time. For example I have spent the last week reading a very interesting book on transcendental number theory which is completely pointless for any job but has given me a lot more satisfaction than trying the latest ethnic fusion $500 a plate cuisine my peers seem to go insane over. Were it not for forest fires I would have moved to the mountains since sci-hub has made university libraries largely pointless.

scudd 6y ago

I think many people can resonate with the desire for more physical space than afforded by a city condo. To describe it as "consumerist" seems a little excessive. The ease of access to nature is another huge plus of getting outside the city

dogman144 6y ago

Those 3 tend to have diminishing returns past 35/40, which is around the time lifestyle concerns that more trend towards safety (financial and otherwise) and stability start mattering much, much more. It's like the professional equivalent of finally owning a paid-off car and realizing what a difference it all makes. A nuked mortgage by a tech salary, a home with an extra bedroom that can support your ailing parents who lost their retirements in '08 and then again in '20, a stable school system that balances non-urban but also not bible belt, and the concept of actually being able to save up nearly full college for 3 kids.... all lives in midwestern tech jobs. Of course there are some cultural tradeoffs the less Minneapolis/Chicago and the more Boise/Des Moines you get, but it's a spectrum that's worth considering.