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Facebook selling your data to advertisers is annoying. TikTok et al vacuuming up data to be stored by the CCP for things like blackmail[0] is horrifying and bas

Facebook selling your data to advertisers is annoying. TikTok et al vacuuming up data to be stored by the CCP for things like blackmail[0] is horrifying and basically geopolitical chess moving to give them leverage on things like putting Muslims in detention camps [1]. Treating the two as equivalent is somewhere between intentionally ignorant or acting in bad faith. [0] - https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-has-a-database-on-americans-built-from-stolen-data_2876161.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-has-a-database-on-americ... [1] - https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/china-confirms-death-of-uighur-man-whose-family-says-was-held-in-xinjiang-camps/ar-BB19D1G7 https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/china-confirms-death-of...

inetknght 6y ago
> Facebook selling your data to advertisers is annoying. Facebook selling your data to advertisers is also horrifying. American "businesses" accept foreign investments and money all the time. Nothing stops those same countries from buying data from Facebook. The only difference between that and TikTok is that money is exchanged. It's just as horrifying.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Unlike the CCP, Facebook isn't literally harvesting organs [2] or implanting intelligence assets [3]. Facebook shouldn't be reckless with user data, but when it's users start getting black bagged and having their vital organs removed, then we can compare the two. Mind you, all the major foreign companies are already banned in China so they can't possibly be involved. [2] - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests... [3] - https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/two-recent-alleged-episodes-of-chinese-espionage-raise-worrying-and-difficult-questions/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/two-recent-alleged-episodes-...
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > Facebook shouldn't be reckless with user data, but when it's users start getting black bagged and having their vital organs removed, then we can compare the two. TikTok's association with CCP is horrifying, yes. Facebook's hands aren't clean either.
    - notsuoh 6y ago
      There’s levels of clean.
  - mola 6y ago
    No they just interfer with local politics via lobbying, i.e. buying politicians, i.e foreign agents.
- polyomino 6y ago
  Facebook isn't selling your data. They're selling access to you.
seg_lol 6y ago
Facebook turning a blind eye to Cambridge Analytica and allowing it to throw our democracy and America under a failing Russian bus should be horrifying. One is a trumped up boogeyman, the other one already happened.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Are you suggesting that putting Muslims in a detention center and harvesting their organs is somehow "a trumped up boogeyman"? [4] [5] Having a bad API and letting Cambridge Analytica abuse that data was bad, but everyone who had their data abused still has all their vital organs. Also odd that you blame Facebook but not the Russian intelligence for those actions - Facebook should have done better but they were inherently on the defensive. Maybe we should blame the foreign intelligence intentionally undermining a foreign election and take action to stop other foreign interference such as TikTok? [4] - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-xinjiang-detention.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-... [5] - https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...
  - chillwaves 6y ago
    They did not suggest anything re: detention centers. You are conflating two separate events. We are talking about the direct effects on US democracy, in which case Facebook has already demonstrated harm. The fact that Russia was involved is only significant in terms of the resources available to "attack facebook" as it were. Many other countries and even private businesses have comparable resources -- this is the problem. American society is still vulnerable due to the business model of Facebook. The idea that we can just trust other countries/corporations to not engage in the same bad acts as Russia is absurd.
jlarocco 6y ago
That's an arbitrary line to draw, and really misses the forest for the trees. It makes little difference in the end if it's a corporation blackmailing and ruining a person's life or a government. Facebook can share your data with whoever they want to, so the government can probably get it anyway. We have no idea who Facebook shares data with, who inside Facebook can see it, etc. Every company claims they have great security and follow best practices, until it's found out that they don't, so taking their word for it that your data is safe is naive. In both cases the end user is powerless unless they stop using the service altogether.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Um, Advertizing is not the same as blackmail. Not even close.
AngryData 6y ago
I don't see how those two things are really any different. Would it be okay if the CCP bought Facebook's data and used that to blackmail people? What if Facebook itself decided it wanted to blackmail people, is that any better? What if China just uses that information to sell to advertisers, is it okay then?

inetknght 6y ago

> Facebook selling your data to advertisers is annoying. Facebook selling your data to advertisers is also horrifying. American "businesses" accept foreign investments and money all the time. Nothing stops those same countries from buying data from Facebook. The only difference between that and TikTok is that money is exchanged. It's just as horrifying.

vorpalhex 6y ago
Unlike the CCP, Facebook isn't literally harvesting organs [2] or implanting intelligence assets [3]. Facebook shouldn't be reckless with user data, but when it's users start getting black bagged and having their vital organs removed, then we can compare the two. Mind you, all the major foreign companies are already banned in China so they can't possibly be involved. [2] - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests... [3] - https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/two-recent-alleged-episodes-of-chinese-espionage-raise-worrying-and-difficult-questions/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/09/two-recent-alleged-episodes-...
- inetknght 6y ago
  > Facebook shouldn't be reckless with user data, but when it's users start getting black bagged and having their vital organs removed, then we can compare the two. TikTok's association with CCP is horrifying, yes. Facebook's hands aren't clean either.
  - notsuoh 6y ago
    There’s levels of clean.
- mola 6y ago
  No they just interfer with local politics via lobbying, i.e. buying politicians, i.e foreign agents.
polyomino 6y ago
Facebook isn't selling your data. They're selling access to you.

seg_lol 6y ago

Facebook turning a blind eye to Cambridge Analytica and allowing it to throw our democracy and America under a failing Russian bus should be horrifying. One is a trumped up boogeyman, the other one already happened.

vorpalhex 6y ago
Are you suggesting that putting Muslims in a detention center and harvesting their organs is somehow "a trumped up boogeyman"? [4] [5] Having a bad API and letting Cambridge Analytica abuse that data was bad, but everyone who had their data abused still has all their vital organs. Also odd that you blame Facebook but not the Russian intelligence for those actions - Facebook should have done better but they were inherently on the defensive. Maybe we should blame the foreign intelligence intentionally undermining a foreign election and take action to stop other foreign interference such as TikTok? [4] - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-xinjiang-detention.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/world/asia/china-muslims-... [5] - https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...
- chillwaves 6y ago
  They did not suggest anything re: detention centers. You are conflating two separate events. We are talking about the direct effects on US democracy, in which case Facebook has already demonstrated harm. The fact that Russia was involved is only significant in terms of the resources available to "attack facebook" as it were. Many other countries and even private businesses have comparable resources -- this is the problem. American society is still vulnerable due to the business model of Facebook. The idea that we can just trust other countries/corporations to not engage in the same bad acts as Russia is absurd.

jlarocco 6y ago

That's an arbitrary line to draw, and really misses the forest for the trees. It makes little difference in the end if it's a corporation blackmailing and ruining a person's life or a government. Facebook can share your data with whoever they want to, so the government can probably get it anyway. We have no idea who Facebook shares data with, who inside Facebook can see it, etc. Every company claims they have great security and follow best practices, until it's found out that they don't, so taking their word for it that your data is safe is naive. In both cases the end user is powerless unless they stop using the service altogether.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
Um, Advertizing is not the same as blackmail. Not even close.

AngryData 6y ago

I don't see how those two things are really any different. Would it be okay if the CCP bought Facebook's data and used that to blackmail people? What if Facebook itself decided it wanted to blackmail people, is that any better? What if China just uses that information to sell to advertisers, is it okay then?