8 ms·

> People want to grow plants, it's a fun hobby, growing your own food is fun, this is great. True, and don't expect to be able to sustain yourself to any meani

> People want to grow plants, it's a fun hobby, growing your own food is fun, this is great. True, and don't expect to be able to sustain yourself to any meaningful extent on food grown on your balcony. You could likely eat all of the potatoes you grow on a balcony over a yearlong period in a week. The most practical use of small spaces for gardening, IMHO, is to grow your own herbs.

hosh 6y ago
You can trade the excess potatoes with other people in the apartment building or in the neighborhood. It builds a stronger local community than it would if everyone were to buy from a grocery store. That is not the only thing you can plant on a balcony. Taking canopy layers into account increases the available amount you can grow. It is practical to raise quail for eggs or meat in an apartment. Mushrooms can be cultivated in a kitchen cabinet.
- Loughla 6y ago
  >It is practical to raise quail for eggs or meat in an apartment. Having raised quail, I just absolutely cannot fathom having them in an apartment. They're loud, they smell, and they really, really like flying around. If you raised quail in an apartment, I'm betting it would be in semi-inhumane small cage conditions. As someone who has not bought food at a grocery store (outside of citrus and other fruits we cannot grow locally due to climate and my absolute fear of scurvy) for the last 5 years, and someone who has cultivated this specific lifestyle for the last 20, I genuinely do not see a way for an apartment of folks to provide for themselves. Nor do I see a functional way for a city neighborhood to do so. It takes so much space just to feed our family of 3 for the year, and that's with trading goods that we cannot or do not want to raise ourselves. I agree that it builds a stronger local community and all that. But OP's premise is still accurate - this is an unrealistic expectation of people growing their own self-supporting food. The space just isn't there - in urban areas.
  - hosh 6y ago
    The domesticated quail raised for food feels safer when they are in a confined space. Unlike chickens, it is more inhumane if you let them free range. You build the coop area so that it is short enough that they don’t jump when startled. I am not sure there is much to be done about them being loud. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/permaculture-for-the-future/id1494403834?i=1000471762358 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/permaculture-for-the-f... As far as going close to 100% growing your own food, that’s a pretty amazing accomplishment. I acknowledge that it is impractical for everyone to do with at this time. However, there are cases where people had to do this and found ways to do it: https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/cubas-urban-farming-revolution-how-to-create-self-sufficient-cities/8660204.article https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/cubas-urban-farm... It just might be that we won’t really try until we are forced to by some kind of collapse scenario or another.
    - Loughla 6y ago
      It is accurate that quail should need be free-range, yes. That's just a good way to lose all of your quail. But, they do need a flight pen, for humane husbandry. They naturally like to run around and peck things. They need space to do that. Anyone who justifies cage raised quail because they like confined space is just trying to justify a bad decision. >It just might be that we won’t really try until we are forced to by some kind of collapse scenario or another. This is 100% what I believe the case will be. We won't try anything, at scale, until forced to. The reason I live the way I do is to prepare for (what I believe to be) the inevitable change/shift in the world in the next 3-5 decades. That being said - mega-cities, and a majority of humans living in cities is a relatively new phenomena. I am not sure our current structure lends itself to 'local' living - that's my argument above. It takes a crap-load of space to feed a family.
      - roboben 6y ago
        I can't find the sources but until 60-70 years ago almost every houshold in NY had either chicken or rabbits.
      - 6y ago
- edoceo 6y ago
  What excess potatoes? A 4sqm field of potatoes over a season can be finished in less than four weeks. What apartment has room for enough area to grow excess potatoes?
  - roboben 6y ago
    We should start questioning why everyone is living in (mostly more expensive) apartments in urban areas with no garden :)
    - mixologic 6y ago
      Industrialization of food production has allowed the density and population of cities to grow. If you specialize in something other than food growing, and rely on the food distribution system to provide your food resources, living in an apartment is efficient (from an economic standpoint, not from an ecological one)
- stronglikedan 6y ago
  > You can trade the excess potatoes with other people in the apartment building or in the neighborhood. Honestly, that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen, unfortunately. Just one person getting sick, even if it wasn't from your potato, could ruin a good time.
  - liotier 6y ago
    Found the USian !
    - dang 6y ago
      Please don't do this here.
- ivanche 6y ago
  adriand literally wrote the opposite - grow for entire year, eat in a week.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
roboben 6y ago
Thanks for your comment! I think it doesn't need to be that black and white. Even if you cannot sustain yourself 100%, you can make a contribution to your environment and the people around you and on top having something nice to eat! :)
justinclift 6y ago
Chilli is another useful thing to grow, which 1 tree can produce much more than you (and relatives) will eat in a year. Saying that as the chilli tree at a friends place is always covered in chilli's ready to pick, even if we strip it bare and return a few weeks later. It's an overachiever. ;)
fuzzybear3965 6y ago
I'm not sure anyone was expecting to replace the grocery store with a balcony garden. If so, a lot of people would be doing it, I'm sure.
zeroimpl 6y ago
I grow tomatoes and some herbs on my balcony. It’s fun and they taste better, but it is clearly orders of magnitude less efficient than basically any alternative. I pay about $10 for supplies and many hours worth of labor to produce maybe $40 worth of produce.

hosh 6y ago

You can trade the excess potatoes with other people in the apartment building or in the neighborhood. It builds a stronger local community than it would if everyone were to buy from a grocery store. That is not the only thing you can plant on a balcony. Taking canopy layers into account increases the available amount you can grow. It is practical to raise quail for eggs or meat in an apartment. Mushrooms can be cultivated in a kitchen cabinet.

Loughla 6y ago
>It is practical to raise quail for eggs or meat in an apartment. Having raised quail, I just absolutely cannot fathom having them in an apartment. They're loud, they smell, and they really, really like flying around. If you raised quail in an apartment, I'm betting it would be in semi-inhumane small cage conditions. As someone who has not bought food at a grocery store (outside of citrus and other fruits we cannot grow locally due to climate and my absolute fear of scurvy) for the last 5 years, and someone who has cultivated this specific lifestyle for the last 20, I genuinely do not see a way for an apartment of folks to provide for themselves. Nor do I see a functional way for a city neighborhood to do so. It takes so much space just to feed our family of 3 for the year, and that's with trading goods that we cannot or do not want to raise ourselves. I agree that it builds a stronger local community and all that. But OP's premise is still accurate - this is an unrealistic expectation of people growing their own self-supporting food. The space just isn't there - in urban areas.
- hosh 6y ago
  The domesticated quail raised for food feels safer when they are in a confined space. Unlike chickens, it is more inhumane if you let them free range. You build the coop area so that it is short enough that they don’t jump when startled. I am not sure there is much to be done about them being loud. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/permaculture-for-the-future/id1494403834?i=1000471762358 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/permaculture-for-the-f... As far as going close to 100% growing your own food, that’s a pretty amazing accomplishment. I acknowledge that it is impractical for everyone to do with at this time. However, there are cases where people had to do this and found ways to do it: https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/cubas-urban-farming-revolution-how-to-create-self-sufficient-cities/8660204.article https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/cubas-urban-farm... It just might be that we won’t really try until we are forced to by some kind of collapse scenario or another.
  - Loughla 6y ago
    It is accurate that quail should need be free-range, yes. That's just a good way to lose all of your quail. But, they do need a flight pen, for humane husbandry. They naturally like to run around and peck things. They need space to do that. Anyone who justifies cage raised quail because they like confined space is just trying to justify a bad decision. >It just might be that we won’t really try until we are forced to by some kind of collapse scenario or another. This is 100% what I believe the case will be. We won't try anything, at scale, until forced to. The reason I live the way I do is to prepare for (what I believe to be) the inevitable change/shift in the world in the next 3-5 decades. That being said - mega-cities, and a majority of humans living in cities is a relatively new phenomena. I am not sure our current structure lends itself to 'local' living - that's my argument above. It takes a crap-load of space to feed a family.
    - roboben 6y ago
      I can't find the sources but until 60-70 years ago almost every houshold in NY had either chicken or rabbits.
    - 6y ago
edoceo 6y ago
What excess potatoes? A 4sqm field of potatoes over a season can be finished in less than four weeks. What apartment has room for enough area to grow excess potatoes?
- roboben 6y ago
  We should start questioning why everyone is living in (mostly more expensive) apartments in urban areas with no garden :)
  - mixologic 6y ago
    Industrialization of food production has allowed the density and population of cities to grow. If you specialize in something other than food growing, and rely on the food distribution system to provide your food resources, living in an apartment is efficient (from an economic standpoint, not from an ecological one)
stronglikedan 6y ago
> You can trade the excess potatoes with other people in the apartment building or in the neighborhood. Honestly, that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen, unfortunately. Just one person getting sick, even if it wasn't from your potato, could ruin a good time.
- liotier 6y ago
  Found the USian !
  - dang 6y ago
    Please don't do this here.
ivanche 6y ago
adriand literally wrote the opposite - grow for entire year, eat in a week.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

roboben 6y ago

Thanks for your comment! I think it doesn't need to be that black and white. Even if you cannot sustain yourself 100%, you can make a contribution to your environment and the people around you and on top having something nice to eat! :)

justinclift 6y ago

Chilli is another useful thing to grow, which 1 tree can produce much more than you (and relatives) will eat in a year. Saying that as the chilli tree at a friends place is always covered in chilli's ready to pick, even if we strip it bare and return a few weeks later. It's an overachiever. ;)

fuzzybear3965 6y ago

I'm not sure anyone was expecting to replace the grocery store with a balcony garden. If so, a lot of people would be doing it, I'm sure.

zeroimpl 6y ago

I grow tomatoes and some herbs on my balcony. It’s fun and they taste better, but it is clearly orders of magnitude less efficient than basically any alternative. I pay about $10 for supplies and many hours worth of labor to produce maybe $40 worth of produce.