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> It's no coincidence that people with African genetics always win sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-Af

by prmph 6y ago

> It's no coincidence that people with African genetics always win sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-African origin do win such sprint and marathon contests. I suspect what you are really trying to get at, in as few words as possible, is a typical the racist trope: that Africans excel in mindless physical sports, while being inferior in the intellect. However, for example, the physical sport of swimming (and many other sports) is dominated by caucasian people. Given this, it would be wrong to ascribe any over-arching superiority of Africans in sports, or even of any sport category. That there are physiological differences between groups of people is not in doubt. However, that does not necessarily translate to any culturally meaningful broad characterizations. Fitness in any endeavour requires a complex mix of talents and skills. I'm surprised to see such simplistic, pseudo-rational arguments from HN members. Edit: Fixed typos

hnracer 6y ago
Korean people are genetically shorter than other races. Do you dispute that this would give them a profound disadvantage in basketball, all else equal? The narrative of all races being functionally the same phenotypically is prima facie absurd as even the most simplistic armchair observation reveals. Anyone who denies that Korean people have a genetic distadvantage in basketball must be acting in bad faith, and if they agree that they are disadvantaged in basketball then they agree with the premise that genetics of racial groups do play an important role in determining over- or under-performance in particular domains. I never ascribed African dominance to sports in general, only running. Presumably the genetics required for elite swimming performance differ to those required for elite running performance, since they are completely different sports. > This is a lie, and you know it Absolutely not. It is an exaggeration, but very much is broadly true. All 100m men's champions at the Olympics going back to 1984 have been of African descent. If my hypothesis is correct, we would expect their dominance to only continue and increase especially as they are given more economic opportunity, but time will tell. Notably, there are 0 Asian champions going back to the 1800s. Is this just a total coincidence in your worldview? Or is it purely a cultural phenomenon, and if so, do you have any evidence whatsoever for this, or merely a bare assertion? > However, that does not necessarily translates to any culturally meaningful broads characterizations. The extent to which this is true is an open question, the only thing I'm sure of is that it's not going to be addressed honestly because of how politically charged it is.
- krapp 6y ago
  Why did you change your example of Asian shortness from Chinese to Korean when rewriting this comment? Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and decide there were too many of them playing at an elite level to support your narrative? If so... you do realize that Koreans and Chinese are different ethnicities but the same race, right? And that all of them play basketball?
  - hnracer 6y ago
    > Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and realize there were too many of them to support your narrative? No. I realize that there are many tall Asians, as well as that there are many tall Asians who play basketball. These two facts are not relevant to my argument. I changed the example from Chinese to Korean (not that it matters because the argument works the same with either), because China is larger and more heterogeneous, Beijing's average height is quite a bit taller than Korea's average height for example. It's easier and safer (less prone to nitpicking) to make the point by using Korea as the example.
    - krapp 6y ago
      But if there are more Asians in China than Korea, which obviously there are, they should be the more accurate representation of Asian genetics. And this is not even taking into account Asians in the US and elsewhere outside of Asia. You say it shouldn't matter yet you also admit your argument is weakened by using the bigger data set. Claims about inherent racial strengths and weaknesses always break down once the actual genetic diversity within the population of a "race" is taken into account, because what we consider to be "race" is broad and mostly defined by cultural and political factors, rather than genetics. By definition, professional athletes are genetic exceptions. So it would make no sense to compare the average member of any population to the elites in the NBA and make claims about race in general. Particularly with something as trivial and variant as height.
      - hnracer 6y ago
pedrosorio 6y ago
> Given this, it would be wrong to ascribe any over-arching superiority of Africans in sports I don’t see anywhere in the parent comment where this was done. They specifically talk about (running) sprints and marathons. The claim with respect to sprints does not seem too controversial. The fastest white man ever has a personal best that is tied for 49th in the 100m [1] - put another way, the top 50 fastest men ever, citizens of multiple countries, all have recent African ancestry. A look at the fastest ever in the marathon [2] reveals a pattern of dominance by athletes of African ancestry as well. Very different ancestry (Kenyans and Ethiopians) and average phenotype from the ones who dominate the 100m as you’d expect but such confusion is inevitable when one talks about these topics in an American forum where “African ancestry” is supposed to mean some narrow and clearly defined thing... > This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-African origin do win such sprint and marathon contests Are we following the same track and field events? [1] https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/sprints/100-metres/outdoor/men/senior https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/spr... [2] https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/road-running/marathon/outdoor/men/senior https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/roa...

by prmph 6y ago

hnracer 6y ago

Korean people are genetically shorter than other races. Do you dispute that this would give them a profound disadvantage in basketball, all else equal? The narrative of all races being functionally the same phenotypically is prima facie absurd as even the most simplistic armchair observation reveals. Anyone who denies that Korean people have a genetic distadvantage in basketball must be acting in bad faith, and if they agree that they are disadvantaged in basketball then they agree with the premise that genetics of racial groups do play an important role in determining over- or under-performance in particular domains. I never ascribed African dominance to sports in general, only running. Presumably the genetics required for elite swimming performance differ to those required for elite running performance, since they are completely different sports. > This is a lie, and you know it Absolutely not. It is an exaggeration, but very much is broadly true. All 100m men's champions at the Olympics going back to 1984 have been of African descent. If my hypothesis is correct, we would expect their dominance to only continue and increase especially as they are given more economic opportunity, but time will tell. Notably, there are 0 Asian champions going back to the 1800s. Is this just a total coincidence in your worldview? Or is it purely a cultural phenomenon, and if so, do you have any evidence whatsoever for this, or merely a bare assertion? > However, that does not necessarily translates to any culturally meaningful broads characterizations. The extent to which this is true is an open question, the only thing I'm sure of is that it's not going to be addressed honestly because of how politically charged it is.

krapp 6y ago
Why did you change your example of Asian shortness from Chinese to Korean when rewriting this comment? Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and decide there were too many of them playing at an elite level to support your narrative? If so... you do realize that Koreans and Chinese are different ethnicities but the same race, right? And that all of them play basketball?
- hnracer 6y ago
  > Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and realize there were too many of them to support your narrative? No. I realize that there are many tall Asians, as well as that there are many tall Asians who play basketball. These two facts are not relevant to my argument. I changed the example from Chinese to Korean (not that it matters because the argument works the same with either), because China is larger and more heterogeneous, Beijing's average height is quite a bit taller than Korea's average height for example. It's easier and safer (less prone to nitpicking) to make the point by using Korea as the example.
  - krapp 6y ago
    But if there are more Asians in China than Korea, which obviously there are, they should be the more accurate representation of Asian genetics. And this is not even taking into account Asians in the US and elsewhere outside of Asia. You say it shouldn't matter yet you also admit your argument is weakened by using the bigger data set. Claims about inherent racial strengths and weaknesses always break down once the actual genetic diversity within the population of a "race" is taken into account, because what we consider to be "race" is broad and mostly defined by cultural and political factors, rather than genetics. By definition, professional athletes are genetic exceptions. So it would make no sense to compare the average member of any population to the elites in the NBA and make claims about race in general. Particularly with something as trivial and variant as height.
    - hnracer 6y ago

pedrosorio 6y ago

> Given this, it would be wrong to ascribe any over-arching superiority of Africans in sports I don’t see anywhere in the parent comment where this was done. They specifically talk about (running) sprints and marathons. The claim with respect to sprints does not seem too controversial. The fastest white man ever has a personal best that is tied for 49th in the 100m [1] - put another way, the top 50 fastest men ever, citizens of multiple countries, all have recent African ancestry. A look at the fastest ever in the marathon [2] reveals a pattern of dominance by athletes of African ancestry as well. Very different ancestry (Kenyans and Ethiopians) and average phenotype from the ones who dominate the 100m as you’d expect but such confusion is inevitable when one talks about these topics in an American forum where “African ancestry” is supposed to mean some narrow and clearly defined thing... > This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-African origin do win such sprint and marathon contests Are we following the same track and field events? [1] https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/sprints/100-metres/outdoor/men/senior https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/spr... [2] https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/road-running/marathon/outdoor/men/senior https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/roa...