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Well the most common ancestor is used to push a certain narrative about all people "being the same", while conveniently putting aside hundreds of thousands year

Well the most common ancestor is used to push a certain narrative about all people "being the same", while conveniently putting aside hundreds of thousands years of evolution, which are precisely the source of the present day differences, but that doesn’t mean it’s false either, as there is indeed a common ancestor if we look back far enough.

titzer 6y ago
I think it's clear from history that narrative of us "being the same" hasn't caused nearly as much trouble as the opposite, the complete and utter lie that we are not all human.
- hnracer 6y ago
  I agree with you that it's not a great idea to obsess about genetic differences between races, but what is true is not necessarily the same as what is socially beneficial. It's simply a fact that there are important genetic differences between racial groups that manifest as important phenotype differences, and understanding these can help to make sense of the world around us. It's no coincidence that people with African genetics dominate sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This happens because they are genetically superior, on average (and this manifests as large differences in extreme performance), at this particular activity compared to other racial groups. Without recognising this, and other, genetic differences, we are left with a thoroughly incomplete understanding of our social reality.
  - prmph 6y ago
    > It's no coincidence that people with African genetics always win sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-African origin do win such sprint and marathon contests. I suspect what you are really trying to get at, in as few words as possible, is a typical the racist trope: that Africans excel in mindless physical sports, while being inferior in the intellect. However, for example, the physical sport of swimming (and many other sports) is dominated by caucasian people. Given this, it would be wrong to ascribe any over-arching superiority of Africans in sports, or even of any sport category. That there are physiological differences between groups of people is not in doubt. However, that does not necessarily translate to any culturally meaningful broad characterizations. Fitness in any endeavour requires a complex mix of talents and skills. I'm surprised to see such simplistic, pseudo-rational arguments from HN members. Edit: Fixed typos
    - hnracer 6y ago
      Korean people are genetically shorter than other races. Do you dispute that this would give them a profound disadvantage in basketball, all else equal? The narrative of all races being functionally the same phenotypically is prima facie absurd as even the most simplistic armchair observation reveals. Anyone who denies that Korean people have a genetic distadvantage in basketball must be acting in bad faith, and if they agree that they are disadvantaged in basketball then they agree with the premise that genetics of racial groups do play an important role in determining over- or under-performance in particular domains. I never ascribed African dominance to sports in general, only running. Presumably the genetics required for elite swimming performance differ to those required for elite running performance, since they are completely different sports. > This is a lie, and you know it Absolutely not. It is an exaggeration, but very much is broadly true. All 100m men's champions at the Olympics going back to 1984 have been of African descent. If my hypothesis is correct, we would expect their dominance to only continue and increase especially as they are given more economic opportunity, but time will tell. Notably, there are 0 Asian champions going back to the 1800s. Is this just a total coincidence in your worldview? Or is it purely a cultural phenomenon, and if so, do you have any evidence whatsoever for this, or merely a bare assertion? > However, that does not necessarily translates to any culturally meaningful broads characterizations. The extent to which this is true is an open question, the only thing I'm sure of is that it's not going to be addressed honestly because of how politically charged it is.
      - krapp 6y ago
        Why did you change your example of Asian shortness from Chinese to Korean when rewriting this comment? Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and decide there were too many of them playing at an elite level to support your narrative? If so... you do realize that Koreans and Chinese are different ethnicities but the same race, right? And that all of them play basketball?
        hnracer 6y ago
        > Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and realize there were too many of them to support your narrative? No. I realize that there are many tall Asians, as well as that there are many tall Asians who play basketball. These two facts are not relevant to my argument. I changed the example from Chinese to Korean (not that it matters because the argument works the same with either), because China is larger and more heterogeneous, Beijing's average height is quite a bit taller than Korea's average height for example. It's easier and safer (less prone to nitpicking) to make the point by using Korea as the example.
andi999 6y ago
I believe for all people to be the same, ability of interbreeding should be considered enough. I agree pushing agenda on half truth is harmful.

titzer 6y ago

I think it's clear from history that narrative of us "being the same" hasn't caused nearly as much trouble as the opposite, the complete and utter lie that we are not all human.

hnracer 6y ago
I agree with you that it's not a great idea to obsess about genetic differences between races, but what is true is not necessarily the same as what is socially beneficial. It's simply a fact that there are important genetic differences between racial groups that manifest as important phenotype differences, and understanding these can help to make sense of the world around us. It's no coincidence that people with African genetics dominate sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This happens because they are genetically superior, on average (and this manifests as large differences in extreme performance), at this particular activity compared to other racial groups. Without recognising this, and other, genetic differences, we are left with a thoroughly incomplete understanding of our social reality.
- prmph 6y ago
  > It's no coincidence that people with African genetics always win sprints and marathons in the Olympics. This is a lie, and you know it. Many people of non-African origin do win such sprint and marathon contests. I suspect what you are really trying to get at, in as few words as possible, is a typical the racist trope: that Africans excel in mindless physical sports, while being inferior in the intellect. However, for example, the physical sport of swimming (and many other sports) is dominated by caucasian people. Given this, it would be wrong to ascribe any over-arching superiority of Africans in sports, or even of any sport category. That there are physiological differences between groups of people is not in doubt. However, that does not necessarily translate to any culturally meaningful broad characterizations. Fitness in any endeavour requires a complex mix of talents and skills. I'm surprised to see such simplistic, pseudo-rational arguments from HN members. Edit: Fixed typos
  - hnracer 6y ago
    Korean people are genetically shorter than other races. Do you dispute that this would give them a profound disadvantage in basketball, all else equal? The narrative of all races being functionally the same phenotypically is prima facie absurd as even the most simplistic armchair observation reveals. Anyone who denies that Korean people have a genetic distadvantage in basketball must be acting in bad faith, and if they agree that they are disadvantaged in basketball then they agree with the premise that genetics of racial groups do play an important role in determining over- or under-performance in particular domains. I never ascribed African dominance to sports in general, only running. Presumably the genetics required for elite swimming performance differ to those required for elite running performance, since they are completely different sports. > This is a lie, and you know it Absolutely not. It is an exaggeration, but very much is broadly true. All 100m men's champions at the Olympics going back to 1984 have been of African descent. If my hypothesis is correct, we would expect their dominance to only continue and increase especially as they are given more economic opportunity, but time will tell. Notably, there are 0 Asian champions going back to the 1800s. Is this just a total coincidence in your worldview? Or is it purely a cultural phenomenon, and if so, do you have any evidence whatsoever for this, or merely a bare assertion? > However, that does not necessarily translates to any culturally meaningful broads characterizations. The extent to which this is true is an open question, the only thing I'm sure of is that it's not going to be addressed honestly because of how politically charged it is.
    - krapp 6y ago
      Why did you change your example of Asian shortness from Chinese to Korean when rewriting this comment? Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and decide there were too many of them playing at an elite level to support your narrative? If so... you do realize that Koreans and Chinese are different ethnicities but the same race, right? And that all of them play basketball?
      - hnracer 6y ago
        > Did you look up statistics for Chinese basketball players and realize there were too many of them to support your narrative? No. I realize that there are many tall Asians, as well as that there are many tall Asians who play basketball. These two facts are not relevant to my argument. I changed the example from Chinese to Korean (not that it matters because the argument works the same with either), because China is larger and more heterogeneous, Beijing's average height is quite a bit taller than Korea's average height for example. It's easier and safer (less prone to nitpicking) to make the point by using Korea as the example.

andi999 6y ago

I believe for all people to be the same, ability of interbreeding should be considered enough. I agree pushing agenda on half truth is harmful.