4 ms·

This is awful news. Inflation will always make people decide to phase-out the smaller denominations. One can argue that the smaller denominations are already us

by henvic 6y ago

This is awful news. Inflation will always make people decide to phase-out the smaller denominations. One can argue that the smaller denominations are already useless, but then starting to phase out the smaller denominations will only make sure the population doesn't notice things getting worse over time. There is just a serious answer to this: freedom to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. Legal tender (when you're forced to use a given currency in a country) sucks.

sokoloff 6y ago
For private transactions, you are already free to offer to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. So is your counter-party, of course. If you both agree on a currency and an amount, you trade. If you don't agree, you don't. Oh wait, you wished that you could trade in whatever currency you'd prefer without granting that same privilege to your trading partner?
- henvic 6y ago
  Uh? What you're talking doesn't make any sense. If one of entities involved in the exchange doesn't want to trade, there is no trade. Simple as that. There is no such thing as privilege here. I think you don't understand the concepts of legal tender and misunderstood what I said. No, you cannot decide to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. This is illegal in most parts of the world. Even if you base the exchange in another currency, you'll need to have a local legal tender to do it. There are exceptions, such as Panama... but in most of the world, you'll be required to exchange to the local currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. You might misunderstand why I included the word private when talking about trade. In most countries, I can rent a hotel or buy a sandwich using whatever currency we both agree. For government (not private) transactions, I am typically forced to use legal tender. (See the first sentence in the link you shared.) For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. In some rare cases, even a government demands to transact in a currency that is not the general legal tender. (The Dominican Republic charges tourists an exit fee that is denominated and paid specifically in USD.)
    - henvic 6y ago
      > There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. uh? Obviously? The enforcement of a legal tender implies in a blatant lack of freedom to trade in whatever currency the parties want. It's an >implication<, not an equality. > For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. > In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. No. At least in the United States, Canada, UK, Brazil, most if not all countries in Europe (and probably all countries where Euro is the currency), and Australia (that I know of), any transaction inside their own territories to be deemed legal has to be made with the national currency. > I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. Paying with USD in countries with other currencies on you credit card? No wonder you think there are not restrictions on what currency you can use. You're basically letting yourself be scammed. https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion/ https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion... The fact that it appears that the merchant is accepting your money in USD (through DCC) doesn't mean they really are. It means that the conversion is done at their end. You might say they accept you paying in cash, then sure... In this case, they do. They might do so both legal or illegally. Now you're talking about tourism or things like small restaurants... things are more relaxed. Now try to do the same for large transactions between companies and, as I said, in most places – but not all – it'll be both illegal & enforced (and the banking system complies with these laws, so this is the first barrier to do so... unless you're talking about big companies that can have a holding overseas and so on).
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        I don't accept their credit card machine offer for that exact reason.

by henvic 6y ago

sokoloff 6y ago

For private transactions, you are already free to offer to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. So is your counter-party, of course. If you both agree on a currency and an amount, you trade. If you don't agree, you don't. Oh wait, you wished that you could trade in whatever currency you'd prefer without granting that same privilege to your trading partner?

henvic 6y ago
Uh? What you're talking doesn't make any sense. If one of entities involved in the exchange doesn't want to trade, there is no trade. Simple as that. There is no such thing as privilege here. I think you don't understand the concepts of legal tender and misunderstood what I said. No, you cannot decide to trade in whatever currency you'd prefer. This is illegal in most parts of the world. Even if you base the exchange in another currency, you'll need to have a local legal tender to do it. There are exceptions, such as Panama... but in most of the world, you'll be required to exchange to the local currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
- sokoloff 6y ago
  There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. You might misunderstand why I included the word private when talking about trade. In most countries, I can rent a hotel or buy a sandwich using whatever currency we both agree. For government (not private) transactions, I am typically forced to use legal tender. (See the first sentence in the link you shared.) For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. In some rare cases, even a government demands to transact in a currency that is not the general legal tender. (The Dominican Republic charges tourists an exit fee that is denominated and paid specifically in USD.)
  - henvic 6y ago
    > There’s a distinction between freedom to trade and legal tender. uh? Obviously? The enforcement of a legal tender implies in a blatant lack of freedom to trade in whatever currency the parties want. It's an >implication<, not an equality. > For private transactions, I can often use a different currency provided my trading partner agrees. > In most cases where you feel like you are forced to transact in the local currency, you are being forced by your trading partner not by their government. No. At least in the United States, Canada, UK, Brazil, most if not all countries in Europe (and probably all countries where Euro is the currency), and Australia (that I know of), any transaction inside their own territories to be deemed legal has to be made with the national currency. > I somewhat regularly use USD currency in countries when that’s not the local legal tender. This is very common in the Caribbean and Central America. It’s commonly accepted (though less frequently done) in Europe. In some cases, shopkeepers have even arranged to offer me currency conversion services (often on their credit card machine) to facilitate their customers' preference to use a different currency. Paying with USD in countries with other currencies on you credit card? No wonder you think there are not restrictions on what currency you can use. You're basically letting yourself be scammed. https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion/ https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion... The fact that it appears that the merchant is accepting your money in USD (through DCC) doesn't mean they really are. It means that the conversion is done at their end. You might say they accept you paying in cash, then sure... In this case, they do. They might do so both legal or illegally. Now you're talking about tourism or things like small restaurants... things are more relaxed. Now try to do the same for large transactions between companies and, as I said, in most places – but not all – it'll be both illegal & enforced (and the banking system complies with these laws, so this is the first barrier to do so... unless you're talking about big companies that can have a holding overseas and so on).
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      I don't accept their credit card machine offer for that exact reason.