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I'm not clear how this isn't kicking the can down the road for awhile, when eventually nickels will be the new pennies? Is there not a better solution? How much

by mpd 6y ago

I'm not clear how this isn't kicking the can down the road for awhile, when eventually nickels will be the new pennies? Is there not a better solution? How much do nickels cost to make?

TylerE 6y ago
Well, what's better, a problem 20 years from now, or having the exact same problem 20 years from now AND also dealing with from 0-20 years? There has to be a name for this sort of "reverse slippery slope" argument, but it isn't coming to me.
- mpd 6y ago
  That's just dumping the issue on the next generation. The solution would be different if we lived forever, I think.
  - TylerE 6y ago
    But again - the next generation has to do deal with it ANYWAY. Why not do what we can today? It literally costs MORE THAN A PENNY to make a penny. We would save over $70 million a year just by stopping making pennies.
    - mpd 6y ago
      My point is that it's wasting time and dumping problems on the future. There are stronger measures that can be taken, if the problem really needs to be solved. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." - I'm sick of this.
      - TylerE 6y ago
        I'm confused. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." seems to be exactly what you're advocating. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. This is sorta like saying "Why send a man to the moon, when we can't send even send an astronaut to the surface Venus?"
        mpd 6y ago
        No, I'm advocating fixing the problem with stronger measures if the really want to fix the problem. > You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. Cool story, but they as well schedule the session to get rid of the nickel now. > 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. A little hyperbolic here. This is of course false.
        TylerE 6y ago
        Big change is scary. It is much easier to sell getting rid of the nickel after successfully getting rid of the penny.
- hwbehrens 6y ago
  I think you might be referring to the nirvana fallacy [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
Polylactic_acid 6y ago
I'm not sure what the problem is with this? Yes, eventually all coins will become obsolete due to inflation but we have decided that inflation is good and its hardly a problem to remove a coin every few decades
- mpd 6y ago
  It's a problem because then 20 years from now they just waste time doing the same thing (how long did it take this generation to remove pennies?) Why? Do you think this would be the solution if humans lived for 200 years on average?
  - Polylactic_acid 6y ago
    How much time was really wasted. Its not like someone spent the last 10 years planning the removal of a coin. You could use this logic to say that literally any government function with a recurring basis is a problem. Why haven't we solved roadworks, you fix the roads but then in 2 years it needs to be done all over again.
    - mpd 6y ago
      > How much time was really wasted. Plenty, since there are full articles being written about it. And my friend, your second paragraph is irrelevant. This topic is about the removing coins from circulation, and my point is that they aren't going far enough if the goal is what they say it is.
  - ben-schaaf 6y ago
    How is this a waste of time? Treasuries are constantly phasing out, destroying and minting new coinage. Deciding to not make new coins in a denomination and destroying the ones that come in is pretty much a single switch for them. And of course on the upside you save people tons of time not dealing with smaller coins. The alternative here is to not have inflation and I don't see that happening (especially just to avoid phasing out denominations).
TillE 6y ago
It's way better than nothing, and if a time comes to ditch the 5 cent coin that's relatively painless. The real problem with the Euro coins is how badly they're designed. It's basically impossible to quickly tell the difference between 2 and 5, and 20 and 50. Very similar size, exact same color. If we're ditching 1 and 2, we should also make the 20 cent piece bronze or something.
- mpd 6y ago
  It's barely better than nothing. If it's really, really a problem, there are much stronger measures that can be taken, whether that be digital solutions or all paper. I don't see how your paragraph about differentiation is relevant here.
- dingaling 6y ago
  Euro coins were designed to be identifiable by ( size + edge pattern ) but that is too complicated when under time pressure. And then there are other gaffes such as the 2 Euro being physically almost identical to the Turkish 1 Lira. I don't know why the opportunity wasn't taken to use distinctive shapes and colours.

by mpd 6y ago

I'm not clear how this isn't kicking the can down the road for awhile, when eventually nickels will be the new pennies? Is there not a better solution? How much do nickels cost to make?

TylerE 6y ago

Well, what's better, a problem 20 years from now, or having the exact same problem 20 years from now AND also dealing with from 0-20 years? There has to be a name for this sort of "reverse slippery slope" argument, but it isn't coming to me.

mpd 6y ago
That's just dumping the issue on the next generation. The solution would be different if we lived forever, I think.
- TylerE 6y ago
  But again - the next generation has to do deal with it ANYWAY. Why not do what we can today? It literally costs MORE THAN A PENNY to make a penny. We would save over $70 million a year just by stopping making pennies.
  - mpd 6y ago
    My point is that it's wasting time and dumping problems on the future. There are stronger measures that can be taken, if the problem really needs to be solved. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." - I'm sick of this.
    - TylerE 6y ago
      I'm confused. "Fuck it, let someone else fix it." seems to be exactly what you're advocating. You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. This is sorta like saying "Why send a man to the moon, when we can't send even send an astronaut to the surface Venus?"
      - mpd 6y ago
        No, I'm advocating fixing the problem with stronger measures if the really want to fix the problem. > You can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good - that just keeps anything from happening. Cool story, but they as well schedule the session to get rid of the nickel now. > 100% solutions do not exist in the real world. A little hyperbolic here. This is of course false.
        TylerE 6y ago
        Big change is scary. It is much easier to sell getting rid of the nickel after successfully getting rid of the penny.
hwbehrens 6y ago
I think you might be referring to the nirvana fallacy [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Polylactic_acid 6y ago

I'm not sure what the problem is with this? Yes, eventually all coins will become obsolete due to inflation but we have decided that inflation is good and its hardly a problem to remove a coin every few decades

mpd 6y ago
It's a problem because then 20 years from now they just waste time doing the same thing (how long did it take this generation to remove pennies?) Why? Do you think this would be the solution if humans lived for 200 years on average?
- Polylactic_acid 6y ago
  How much time was really wasted. Its not like someone spent the last 10 years planning the removal of a coin. You could use this logic to say that literally any government function with a recurring basis is a problem. Why haven't we solved roadworks, you fix the roads but then in 2 years it needs to be done all over again.
  - mpd 6y ago
    > How much time was really wasted. Plenty, since there are full articles being written about it. And my friend, your second paragraph is irrelevant. This topic is about the removing coins from circulation, and my point is that they aren't going far enough if the goal is what they say it is.
- ben-schaaf 6y ago
  How is this a waste of time? Treasuries are constantly phasing out, destroying and minting new coinage. Deciding to not make new coins in a denomination and destroying the ones that come in is pretty much a single switch for them. And of course on the upside you save people tons of time not dealing with smaller coins. The alternative here is to not have inflation and I don't see that happening (especially just to avoid phasing out denominations).

TillE 6y ago

It's way better than nothing, and if a time comes to ditch the 5 cent coin that's relatively painless. The real problem with the Euro coins is how badly they're designed. It's basically impossible to quickly tell the difference between 2 and 5, and 20 and 50. Very similar size, exact same color. If we're ditching 1 and 2, we should also make the 20 cent piece bronze or something.

mpd 6y ago
It's barely better than nothing. If it's really, really a problem, there are much stronger measures that can be taken, whether that be digital solutions or all paper. I don't see how your paragraph about differentiation is relevant here.
dingaling 6y ago
Euro coins were designed to be identifiable by ( size + edge pattern ) but that is too complicated when under time pressure. And then there are other gaffes such as the 2 Euro being physically almost identical to the Turkish 1 Lira. I don't know why the opportunity wasn't taken to use distinctive shapes and colours.