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Definitely irresponsible. These homeowners should know about defensible space. [1] I agree with you - I think a lot of these areas aren't proactively managing

Definitely irresponsible. These homeowners should know about defensible space. [1] I agree with you - I think a lot of these areas aren't proactively managing this due to the blowback. [1] https://www.readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/get-ready/defensible-space/ https://www.readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/get-re...

khuey 6y ago
People really love the aesthetics of having lots of vegetation near their homes, even if it does make them death traps in a wildfire. Mill Valley had an enormous fight last year about an ordinance to require 3 feet of defensible space. Getting 30 or 100 feet would require cutting down every tree in town.
- dfgasdgsd 6y ago
  I know Mill Valley is probably helped a bit by the fog, etc. but visiting there for hiking etc. feels more uneasy with every passing year. The amount of brush in the hills/on those back roads in the canyons is enormous.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    On a visit a decade or two back, there was a rather sobering history of fire on the mountain (Tamalpias) at a popular stop. From the about 1875 to 1930 there was a major burn every few years. There has now not been on since the 1930s, a few grassfires excepted. Houses extend far up the mountain. Streets are narrow, steep, and twisted. Trees grow two, and sometimes within structures. Wood and cedar construction are common. Yes, the fog helps. But it won't protect forever.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  Aesthetics is one reason, but having houses much more efficient energetically, or shadow in summer is a must in some areas. Trees are not a caprice always, they made the homes much more confortable and pleasant. They provide food also. So, why if instead to chop them (and having each house slurping energy like an entire city), we just search a way to reduce the fire hazard in the trees, and include them in the mix? The absence of safe areas or escape roads seems a fixable problem.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    Some trees are way better than others with fire. In the western part of the country we have Jeffrey Pines [1]. They have branches that start really high up and their bark is super thick so they are considered fire resistant trees - highly fire resistant as adults. "Jeffrey pine's ability to shed burning bark scales as a means to reduce fire damage has received mention in the literature, and firefighters have reported observing fires extinguished by shedding bark scales" [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_jeffreyi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_jeffreyi [2] https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/pinjef/all.html https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/pinjef/all.h...
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    > or shadow in summer is a must in some areas. This is what louvers and (eave) overhangs are for. You'd only need some trees for westerly windows once the sun gets closer to the horizon. As an added benefit you can get some solar gain during the winter months if desired if you get the overhand length right (plenty of online calculators).
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      Roofs and walls at sun absorb heat and irradiate it later inside the home. Louvers just block light inside but can not save from having a roof too hot. Houses next trees instead are shadowed some hours a day, they are more fresh inside and heat less, so are much cheaper to keep at habitable temperatures in hot areas. Trees are also great blocking street noise and removing contamination. We just can not remove plants from cities without suffering negative collateral effects
      - throw0101a 6y ago
        > Roofs and walls at sun absorb heat and irradiate it later inside the home. Radiant barriers are a thing, especially in the Sun Belt. Plenty of products that have foil lining, but it can also be done as a stand-alone product: just add a small (rainscreen) air gap between the foil and the cladding.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  The Great Mill Valley Fire stories will be horrific. They are inevitabble.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

khuey 6y ago

People really love the aesthetics of having lots of vegetation near their homes, even if it does make them death traps in a wildfire. Mill Valley had an enormous fight last year about an ordinance to require 3 feet of defensible space. Getting 30 or 100 feet would require cutting down every tree in town.

dfgasdgsd 6y ago
I know Mill Valley is probably helped a bit by the fog, etc. but visiting there for hiking etc. feels more uneasy with every passing year. The amount of brush in the hills/on those back roads in the canyons is enormous.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  On a visit a decade or two back, there was a rather sobering history of fire on the mountain (Tamalpias) at a popular stop. From the about 1875 to 1930 there was a major burn every few years. There has now not been on since the 1930s, a few grassfires excepted. Houses extend far up the mountain. Streets are narrow, steep, and twisted. Trees grow two, and sometimes within structures. Wood and cedar construction are common. Yes, the fog helps. But it won't protect forever.
pvaldes 6y ago
Aesthetics is one reason, but having houses much more efficient energetically, or shadow in summer is a must in some areas. Trees are not a caprice always, they made the homes much more confortable and pleasant. They provide food also. So, why if instead to chop them (and having each house slurping energy like an entire city), we just search a way to reduce the fire hazard in the trees, and include them in the mix? The absence of safe areas or escape roads seems a fixable problem.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  Some trees are way better than others with fire. In the western part of the country we have Jeffrey Pines [1]. They have branches that start really high up and their bark is super thick so they are considered fire resistant trees - highly fire resistant as adults. "Jeffrey pine's ability to shed burning bark scales as a means to reduce fire damage has received mention in the literature, and firefighters have reported observing fires extinguished by shedding bark scales" [2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_jeffreyi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinus_jeffreyi [2] https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/pinjef/all.html https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/pinjef/all.h...
- throw0101a 6y ago
  > or shadow in summer is a must in some areas. This is what louvers and (eave) overhangs are for. You'd only need some trees for westerly windows once the sun gets closer to the horizon. As an added benefit you can get some solar gain during the winter months if desired if you get the overhand length right (plenty of online calculators).
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    Roofs and walls at sun absorb heat and irradiate it later inside the home. Louvers just block light inside but can not save from having a roof too hot. Houses next trees instead are shadowed some hours a day, they are more fresh inside and heat less, so are much cheaper to keep at habitable temperatures in hot areas. Trees are also great blocking street noise and removing contamination. We just can not remove plants from cities without suffering negative collateral effects
    - throw0101a 6y ago
      > Roofs and walls at sun absorb heat and irradiate it later inside the home. Radiant barriers are a thing, especially in the Sun Belt. Plenty of products that have foil lining, but it can also be done as a stand-alone product: just add a small (rainscreen) air gap between the foil and the cladding.
dredmorbius 6y ago
The Great Mill Valley Fire stories will be horrific. They are inevitabble.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]