4 ms·

Related: the Dutch also have some pretty wild stuff. Check out the storm surge barrier protecting Rotterdam and the port: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maeslan

Related: the Dutch also have some pretty wild stuff. Check out the storm surge barrier protecting Rotterdam and the port: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maeslantkering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maeslantkering

eecc 6y ago
yup, a much better design that rests on dry land rather than on the sea bed while not in use; reducing corrosion rates and making maintenance a much cheaper procedure. "Ah, but what about the landscape!" cried the politicos when greasing this pork barrel for their industry friends. Yeah, right... I bet they had the same scruples when they broke ground for Pordo Marghera. SMH
- Udik 6y ago
  > Ah, but what about the landscape! Ah but what about the fact that the Maeslantkering closes a canal that is 360 metres wide, the total width of the MOSE is 1.6km...
  - konschubert 6y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering
  - eecc 6y ago
    The MOSE consists of 3 separate installations for 3 different harbor mouths, so in principle it wouldn't have been that much different from the Dutch scenario.
    - Udik 6y ago
      It's actually four sections, each longer than the entire Maeslantkering.
  - jeroenhd 6y ago
    The Maeslantkering is only one of a series of structures to control the water flow, the Delta Works[1]. The Oosterscheldekering[2] is a much bigger structure, about nine kilometers long with four kilometers of openable sluices that were added after protests against closing off the water way. Similarly gigantic is the 5 kilometers long Haringvlietdam[3]. These projects are quite old, though, so some innovation to water control is always welcome. The system used by MOSE seems to be quite easy to hide compared to the massive steel and concrete structures of the Dutch system. If it turns out there is no penalty to longevity and maintenance, a system similar to the Italian project might just show up in the Netherlands as well. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haringvlietdam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haringvlietdam
- TylerE 6y ago
  Venice is a series of islands that is 100% developed. There is no open dry land, aside for a few small (<1 city block) sized parks. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Venice_as_seen_from_the_air_with_bridge_to_mainland.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Venice_a...
  - samatman 6y ago
    Sure but a double-digit amount of the entire Netherlands was water, and remains below sea level. Hence the name. I haven't a clue if it's practical/economical for Venice to build more land, however; without more information, I'll assume their solution is right for them, as the Dutch solution is for the Netherlands.
    - romanoderoma 6y ago
      Rotterdam was almost completely rebuilt after WWII, Venice has been there almost unchanged for about 15 centuries. It's much more fragile than practically any other city in the World and needs a particular care. Building modern structures on it (choosing carefully where, since it's built on over 400 islands) would ruin it forever.
igravious 6y ago
“Port of Rotterdam is the largest seaport in Europe, […] From 1962 until 2004 it was the world's busiest port” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Rotterdam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Rotterdam Wow
GCA10 6y ago
This is petty, but should I believe the Wikipedia article when it says "the barriers are controlled by a supercomputer"? Unless this is a 1980s-vintage supercomputer, I'm baffled. The barriers' main function is to open or close. Someone needs to assess and predict rising water levels, but a lot of that is surely done by other systems. Add in some speed adjustments and some docking/aligning adjustments to get everything to shut just so -- and it still sounds far simpler than an iPhone camera. The civil engineering challenge is huge. But I'm not seeing a huge need for the very high end of modern computing power to make it all work.
- wahern 6y ago
  The citation to the previous sentence (see https://www.dekennisvannu.nl/site/artikel/Rekenkracht-is-macht/5882 https://www.dekennisvannu.nl/site/artikel/Rekenkracht-is-mac...) discusses the use of supercomputers, but from Google's Dutch to English translation it's not clear if supercomputer is in contradistinction to the BOS system that controls the barrier, or if BOS was just a lesser type of supercomputer-class controller. Here's more information on BOS: https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/werking/index.html https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer... https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/werking/bosbes.html https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer... Here's a page describing BOS from the company that built it, though emphasizing it's reliability, not computational power: https://www.cgi-group.co.uk/en/media/case-study/intelligent-decision-and-support-system-control-flood-barrier https://www.cgi-group.co.uk/en/media/case-study/intelligent-...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- taneq 6y ago
  Maybe it uses a supercomputer to simulate the incoming tide and decide how much water to let in before raising the gate? It seems odd that they'd need more computation power than a tide table and an associated lookup table of setpoints, though.
  - Doxin 6y ago

eecc 6y ago

yup, a much better design that rests on dry land rather than on the sea bed while not in use; reducing corrosion rates and making maintenance a much cheaper procedure. "Ah, but what about the landscape!" cried the politicos when greasing this pork barrel for their industry friends. Yeah, right... I bet they had the same scruples when they broke ground for Pordo Marghera. SMH

Udik 6y ago
> Ah, but what about the landscape! Ah but what about the fact that the Maeslantkering closes a canal that is 360 metres wide, the total width of the MOSE is 1.6km...
- konschubert 6y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering
- eecc 6y ago
  The MOSE consists of 3 separate installations for 3 different harbor mouths, so in principle it wouldn't have been that much different from the Dutch scenario.
  - Udik 6y ago
    It's actually four sections, each longer than the entire Maeslantkering.
- jeroenhd 6y ago
  The Maeslantkering is only one of a series of structures to control the water flow, the Delta Works[1]. The Oosterscheldekering[2] is a much bigger structure, about nine kilometers long with four kilometers of openable sluices that were added after protests against closing off the water way. Similarly gigantic is the 5 kilometers long Haringvlietdam[3]. These projects are quite old, though, so some innovation to water control is always welcome. The system used by MOSE seems to be quite easy to hide compared to the massive steel and concrete structures of the Dutch system. If it turns out there is no penalty to longevity and maintenance, a system similar to the Italian project might just show up in the Netherlands as well. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oosterscheldekering [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haringvlietdam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haringvlietdam
TylerE 6y ago
Venice is a series of islands that is 100% developed. There is no open dry land, aside for a few small (<1 city block) sized parks. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Venice_as_seen_from_the_air_with_bridge_to_mainland.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Venice_a...
- samatman 6y ago
  Sure but a double-digit amount of the entire Netherlands was water, and remains below sea level. Hence the name. I haven't a clue if it's practical/economical for Venice to build more land, however; without more information, I'll assume their solution is right for them, as the Dutch solution is for the Netherlands.
  - romanoderoma 6y ago
    Rotterdam was almost completely rebuilt after WWII, Venice has been there almost unchanged for about 15 centuries. It's much more fragile than practically any other city in the World and needs a particular care. Building modern structures on it (choosing carefully where, since it's built on over 400 islands) would ruin it forever.

igravious 6y ago

“Port of Rotterdam is the largest seaport in Europe, […] From 1962 until 2004 it was the world's busiest port” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Rotterdam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Rotterdam Wow

GCA10 6y ago

This is petty, but should I believe the Wikipedia article when it says "the barriers are controlled by a supercomputer"? Unless this is a 1980s-vintage supercomputer, I'm baffled. The barriers' main function is to open or close. Someone needs to assess and predict rising water levels, but a lot of that is surely done by other systems. Add in some speed adjustments and some docking/aligning adjustments to get everything to shut just so -- and it still sounds far simpler than an iPhone camera. The civil engineering challenge is huge. But I'm not seeing a huge need for the very high end of modern computing power to make it all work.

wahern 6y ago
The citation to the previous sentence (see https://www.dekennisvannu.nl/site/artikel/Rekenkracht-is-macht/5882 https://www.dekennisvannu.nl/site/artikel/Rekenkracht-is-mac...) discusses the use of supercomputers, but from Google's Dutch to English translation it's not clear if supercomputer is in contradistinction to the BOS system that controls the barrier, or if BOS was just a lesser type of supercomputer-class controller. Here's more information on BOS: https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/werking/index.html https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer... https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/werking/bosbes.html https://park.org/Netherlands/pavilions/techno/svk/engels/wer... Here's a page describing BOS from the company that built it, though emphasizing it's reliability, not computational power: https://www.cgi-group.co.uk/en/media/case-study/intelligent-decision-and-support-system-control-flood-barrier https://www.cgi-group.co.uk/en/media/case-study/intelligent-...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
taneq 6y ago
Maybe it uses a supercomputer to simulate the incoming tide and decide how much water to let in before raising the gate? It seems odd that they'd need more computation power than a tide table and an associated lookup table of setpoints, though.
- Doxin 6y ago