4 ms·

That's quite the hobby to pick up - what resources are you using to learn vocabulary / are there some communities for this, or is it all stitched together from

That's quite the hobby to pick up - what resources are you using to learn vocabulary / are there some communities for this, or is it all stitched together from the show?

082349872349872 6y ago
Will answer more in depth tomorrow. For now: https://pensatingbik.tumblr.com/post/183320546205/learning-lang-belta-the-basics-list https://pensatingbik.tumblr.com/post/183320546205/learning-l...
082349872349872 6y ago
There are resources[1] with communities[2], which are stitched together from the show[3]. I learned about lang belta from HN[4], and am interested because the poverty of attested vocabulary makes circumlocution essential. Beside the challenge, it's a language that has no L1 speakers, so milowda kowmang eka, we're all equally disadvantaged[5]. Beyond that, I guess I'm just a kuxakuwala, someone who's been stanning space ever since discovering SciFi[6]. Fo showxa fit natet, gova gif terash, kori gif ye mash.[7] [1] see showxating beranta, the brother comment, plus "lang belta" as a search term yields more, e.g. https://www.scifi-forum.de/forum/science-fiction/the-expanse/4533253-«the-expanse»-übersetzungen-der-gürtler-sprache-langbelta https://www.scifi-forum.de/forum/science-fiction/the-expanse... [2] which I have yet to explore. Maybe when I get closer to real-time productivity I'll be tempted enough to join discord and potentially even Patreon. (can I just make a payment directly to Nick Farmer? Do you all have IBAN in the US yet, so I can avoid third parties, like Patreon, SWIFT, etc.?) [3] as explained earlier, the show's creole is a retcon with authorial blessing, as it's been done by a langwala, a linguist, in an effort to produce a productive conlang. The show mainly codeswitches a "beltish" lect, with english as the acrolect but in principle (subject to willingness of audience, writers, and actors to exploit it) there's an underlying lang belta basilect. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezU-F028krU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezU-F028krU (some articles at https://palawandailynews.com https://palawandailynews.com probably contain equivalent mixes of english/filipino?) [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552727 [5] When the indians were imploring each other to "get yer brits out" ironically they had to do so in english, for similar reasons. [6] Compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24399840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24399840 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TAmISW76Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TAmISW76Rk [7] "To spit with flow, the head produces thrust yet it's the heart that provides reaction mass." after Quintilian (first century) http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2007.01.0068%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D7%3Asection%3D15 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...
- mdiesel 6y ago
  My understanding of the belter language was it was partly driven by the necessity to communicate in a vacuum so gestures were also important. Does that feature in the linguistics at all, or is it purely supplemental?
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Again, I haven't actually read the books or seen the show, so I'm a poor reference, just wa paxoniseki unte wa beltawala, an earthling stanning the language like an otaku. I like what I've found online of the gestural language, and apparently it gets used far more in the show than lang belta itself (being much easier for anglophone audience and actors). My impression is that it is normally a supplemental redundant channel (pair go with the outstretched arm, ya with a raised fist, kori or sensa with the hand on heart, tugut with the hand beaks, etc.) but an area I can easily imagine it would play a paralinguistic role is in telegraphing sarcasm: one might say something in english while gesturing the opposite[1][2]. IIRC Naomi does this to Martians at one point? [1] I'd imagine spacesuit comms would often show talking heads, leaving the belter gestural language —which uses everything but the head, because helmets— with a clear channel for side messages to one's crew, in one's immediate presence, versus the ofisha comms reporting to management. [2] having noticed the strong resemblance of "Oi, mush!" to "Ой, мужик!" I now wonder how coincidental the resemblance of "Guv'nor" to "говно" may be? Edit: found a thread, https://www.reddit.com/r/LangBelta/comments/5w3puf/gestures/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LangBelta/comments/5w3puf/gestures/
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    On a tangent: Quintilian has an interesting chapter on the use of gesture in rhetoric, and he denounces imitative gesture (and especially imitative voice) as being infra dig, while lauding more abstract gesture as a side channel to breadcrumb the separate parts of a speech and their various relations to the current line of argument. https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Quintilian/Institutio_Oratoria/11C*.html#3 https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Quintilia... > "It was for this reason that Demosthenes used to practise his delivery in front of a large mirror..." et seq (On the importance of glances, when not hidden by a spacesuit helmet: the soviet equivalent of Sesame Street used puppets with mobile eyes, which I find very expressive indeed.)

That's quite the hobby to pick up - what resources are you using to learn vocabulary / are there some communities for this, or is it all stitched together from the show?

082349872349872 6y ago

Will answer more in depth tomorrow. For now: https://pensatingbik.tumblr.com/post/183320546205/learning-lang-belta-the-basics-list https://pensatingbik.tumblr.com/post/183320546205/learning-l...

082349872349872 6y ago

There are resources[1] with communities[2], which are stitched together from the show[3]. I learned about lang belta from HN[4], and am interested because the poverty of attested vocabulary makes circumlocution essential. Beside the challenge, it's a language that has no L1 speakers, so milowda kowmang eka, we're all equally disadvantaged[5]. Beyond that, I guess I'm just a kuxakuwala, someone who's been stanning space ever since discovering SciFi[6]. Fo showxa fit natet, gova gif terash, kori gif ye mash.[7] [1] see showxating beranta, the brother comment, plus "lang belta" as a search term yields more, e.g. https://www.scifi-forum.de/forum/science-fiction/the-expanse/4533253-«the-expanse»-übersetzungen-der-gürtler-sprache-langbelta https://www.scifi-forum.de/forum/science-fiction/the-expanse... [2] which I have yet to explore. Maybe when I get closer to real-time productivity I'll be tempted enough to join discord and potentially even Patreon. (can I just make a payment directly to Nick Farmer? Do you all have IBAN in the US yet, so I can avoid third parties, like Patreon, SWIFT, etc.?) [3] as explained earlier, the show's creole is a retcon with authorial blessing, as it's been done by a langwala, a linguist, in an effort to produce a productive conlang. The show mainly codeswitches a "beltish" lect, with english as the acrolect but in principle (subject to willingness of audience, writers, and actors to exploit it) there's an underlying lang belta basilect. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezU-F028krU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezU-F028krU (some articles at https://palawandailynews.com https://palawandailynews.com probably contain equivalent mixes of english/filipino?) [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552727 [5] When the indians were imploring each other to "get yer brits out" ironically they had to do so in english, for similar reasons. [6] Compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24399840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24399840 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TAmISW76Rk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TAmISW76Rk [7] "To spit with flow, the head produces thrust yet it's the heart that provides reaction mass." after Quintilian (first century) http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2007.01.0068%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D7%3Asection%3D15 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

mdiesel 6y ago
My understanding of the belter language was it was partly driven by the necessity to communicate in a vacuum so gestures were also important. Does that feature in the linguistics at all, or is it purely supplemental?
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Again, I haven't actually read the books or seen the show, so I'm a poor reference, just wa paxoniseki unte wa beltawala, an earthling stanning the language like an otaku. I like what I've found online of the gestural language, and apparently it gets used far more in the show than lang belta itself (being much easier for anglophone audience and actors). My impression is that it is normally a supplemental redundant channel (pair go with the outstretched arm, ya with a raised fist, kori or sensa with the hand on heart, tugut with the hand beaks, etc.) but an area I can easily imagine it would play a paralinguistic role is in telegraphing sarcasm: one might say something in english while gesturing the opposite[1][2]. IIRC Naomi does this to Martians at one point? [1] I'd imagine spacesuit comms would often show talking heads, leaving the belter gestural language —which uses everything but the head, because helmets— with a clear channel for side messages to one's crew, in one's immediate presence, versus the ofisha comms reporting to management. [2] having noticed the strong resemblance of "Oi, mush!" to "Ой, мужик!" I now wonder how coincidental the resemblance of "Guv'nor" to "говно" may be? Edit: found a thread, https://www.reddit.com/r/LangBelta/comments/5w3puf/gestures/ https://www.reddit.com/r/LangBelta/comments/5w3puf/gestures/
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  On a tangent: Quintilian has an interesting chapter on the use of gesture in rhetoric, and he denounces imitative gesture (and especially imitative voice) as being infra dig, while lauding more abstract gesture as a side channel to breadcrumb the separate parts of a speech and their various relations to the current line of argument. https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Quintilian/Institutio_Oratoria/11C*.html#3 https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Quintilia... > "It was for this reason that Demosthenes used to practise his delivery in front of a large mirror..." et seq (On the importance of glances, when not hidden by a spacesuit helmet: the soviet equivalent of Sesame Street used puppets with mobile eyes, which I find very expressive indeed.)