9 ms·

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

adamsea 6y ago
Not if we are well-rested in general and healthy, and choose not to drive when we are tired. If we have a particular medical condition / issue then that is a different story. But folks don't randomly fall asleep (I think?) if they're getting sufficient rest and they're not already tired.
- laumars 6y ago
  Not defending the GP but there are plenty of occasions where it’s unavoidable for some people to drive tired. Like families with young children and where adults don’t have the luxury of working from home nor good public transport links. Are they supposed to book a day off every time their child doesn’t sleep? But there are also measures one can take to mitigate tiredness while driving: winding the window down or turning the AC down, putting energising music on, stopping mid-journey and taking a break, etc. There are also medical conditions one can have where they can fall asleep even when not tired. However I believe you’re denied a licence if you do suffer from any of them so this might well be a moot point.
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    > turning the AC down Wouldn't you want to turn it up? You're less likely to fall asleep if you're cold.
    - laumars 6y ago
      Yeah, I mean temperature rather than electronically. Though in the climate I’m from both would generally lead to the same drop in cabin temperature.
- fastball 6y ago
  Demonstrably untrue. Monotony can make you drowsy, regardless of how healthy you are or how much sleep you've had. And when this happens, it can catch you unawares even if you're looking for it.
  - adamsea 6y ago
    True. But then wouldn't you want to take a break, or have your software/whatever notifying you to take a break prior to falling asleep?
8ytecoder 6y ago
Car fatigue is real. The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. It can happen to the best of us and when you realise it’s safer to pull to the side of the road. Unlike a DUI this neither voluntary nor reckless unless you ignore the warning signs and keep on driving.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  > The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. I'd add an occasional glance at the horizon too , if you're on a long trip. You can make it a game if you're driving a new route (guess which mountain is closest to the road you're on) Frequently changing focal distance helps a lot to prevent eye fatigue.
- hnick 6y ago
  Here in NSW we have the "Stop Revive Survive" campaign and Driver Reviver: https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/driver_reviver.html https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/stayin... It is drilled into us that we should stop every 2 hours regardless of how we feel. You cannot trust yourself to judge as by definition your judgment is impaired when tired, it's best to just stop and grab a free tea/coffee if you find one of their setups or even just pull over to rest your eyes or walk around your car for a couple of minutes to reset.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    We have similar public information campaigns in the UK as well: take a break at least every two hours and more frequently if you're driving under more draining conditions; if you're starting to feel tired then pull over as soon as possible, have a caffeinated drink and maybe take a short nap; and so on. At certain times of year, the big displays on major roads even display "don't drive tired" and "take a break" reminders.
orf 6y ago
That’s a truism that doesn’t add anything. You know when you’re tired, and when a comfy warm enclosure might make you fall asleep. In such situations driving like that is as bad as driving drunk. Don’t do it.
- arcticfox 6y ago
  IMO your statement is the truism that isn't adding anything. Obviously people that might fall asleep shouldn't drive. But this is a matter of degree. Everyone might fall asleep and it's a risk everyone will eventually take even in a small degree. Some people are always somewhat tired (eg sleep apnea or CFS), some people aren't tired when they start driving but become impaired at some point. Some people might have an undiagnosed condition that contributes. There's no reason to not celebrate a simple advancement that might save people from a disaster.
  - Mirioron 6y ago
    >But this is a matter of degree. This is it. I don't understand why this isn't higher up in the discussion. Do you check whether your brakes work every time before setting off? Do you check whether your wheels are attached properly every time before setting off? There are a million things that could break on your car. They're just very unlikely to happen. Pilots/maintenance crew for planes checks that kind of stuff for virtually every flight. We accept this small risk with cars. In return we get an enormous increase in efficiency. If everyone had to do a 5 minute check on their car every time before setting off, then that would be a lot of productive time spent on it.
serf 6y ago
Would you accept that response as the reasoning of a judge after an incident? I wouldn't. I'd consider it criminal negligence to get behind the wheel of a car at times when it's impossible to make a suitable effort to drive such equipment. It's not acceptable to hop into a car drunk, either. The effects aren't really that much different between the two, response-time wise.
- kbenson 6y ago
  The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. I've driven the family from Northern Califorina to Sourthern California quite a few times, many of them overnight. It took one instance of actually falling asleep at the wheel for a few seconds to realize "oh, that's the difference between tired and falling asleep at the wheel." I definitely recognize it now and never let it happen now (stopping and sleeping, trading out for someone else to drive, etc), but the point is I didn't think I was close to that level previously. Experience is something that we can't expect all people to have and exhibit the wisdom of, and unfortunately some things learned through experience are much harder (or nearly impossible) to teach without doing, and for dangerous things that's a problem for normal people. As a much much more extreme example, I've heard that's why Navy Seal training keeps candidates up and physically and mentally exhausted for days at a time. Partly to see who can handle the pressure, and partly so they have experienced that condition before and understand it in themselves and others.
  - Silhouette 6y ago
    The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. Then they can follow the same rule as for overtaking: if in doubt, don't. It's not complicated. There is no way you are tired enough to be actually falling asleep without realising you're far too tired to be driving safely. It's not as if it's a close thing where one minute you're alert and driving responsibly and the next minute you're out. Anyone who can't make that determination reliably is demonstrably unfit to be in charge of a vehicle and should hand in their licence.

Not if we are well-rested in general and healthy, and choose not to drive when we are tired. If we have a particular medical condition / issue then that is a different story. But folks don't randomly fall asleep (I think?) if they're getting sufficient rest and they're not already tired.

laumars 6y ago
Not defending the GP but there are plenty of occasions where it’s unavoidable for some people to drive tired. Like families with young children and where adults don’t have the luxury of working from home nor good public transport links. Are they supposed to book a day off every time their child doesn’t sleep? But there are also measures one can take to mitigate tiredness while driving: winding the window down or turning the AC down, putting energising music on, stopping mid-journey and taking a break, etc. There are also medical conditions one can have where they can fall asleep even when not tired. However I believe you’re denied a licence if you do suffer from any of them so this might well be a moot point.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  > turning the AC down Wouldn't you want to turn it up? You're less likely to fall asleep if you're cold.
  - laumars 6y ago
    Yeah, I mean temperature rather than electronically. Though in the climate I’m from both would generally lead to the same drop in cabin temperature.
fastball 6y ago
Demonstrably untrue. Monotony can make you drowsy, regardless of how healthy you are or how much sleep you've had. And when this happens, it can catch you unawares even if you're looking for it.
- adamsea 6y ago
  True. But then wouldn't you want to take a break, or have your software/whatever notifying you to take a break prior to falling asleep?

8ytecoder 6y ago

Car fatigue is real. The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. It can happen to the best of us and when you realise it’s safer to pull to the side of the road. Unlike a DUI this neither voluntary nor reckless unless you ignore the warning signs and keep on driving.

sangnoir 6y ago
> The only way I avoid it is to be constantly scanning by moving my eyes around - side mirror, rear mirror, speed gauge, back to the road. Delay(5s). Repeat. I'd add an occasional glance at the horizon too , if you're on a long trip. You can make it a game if you're driving a new route (guess which mountain is closest to the road you're on) Frequently changing focal distance helps a lot to prevent eye fatigue.
hnick 6y ago
Here in NSW we have the "Stop Revive Survive" campaign and Driver Reviver: https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/staying_safe/driver_reviver.html https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/your_driving_skills/stayin... It is drilled into us that we should stop every 2 hours regardless of how we feel. You cannot trust yourself to judge as by definition your judgment is impaired when tired, it's best to just stop and grab a free tea/coffee if you find one of their setups or even just pull over to rest your eyes or walk around your car for a couple of minutes to reset.
- Silhouette 6y ago
  We have similar public information campaigns in the UK as well: take a break at least every two hours and more frequently if you're driving under more draining conditions; if you're starting to feel tired then pull over as soon as possible, have a caffeinated drink and maybe take a short nap; and so on. At certain times of year, the big displays on major roads even display "don't drive tired" and "take a break" reminders.

orf 6y ago

That’s a truism that doesn’t add anything. You know when you’re tired, and when a comfy warm enclosure might make you fall asleep. In such situations driving like that is as bad as driving drunk. Don’t do it.

arcticfox 6y ago
IMO your statement is the truism that isn't adding anything. Obviously people that might fall asleep shouldn't drive. But this is a matter of degree. Everyone might fall asleep and it's a risk everyone will eventually take even in a small degree. Some people are always somewhat tired (eg sleep apnea or CFS), some people aren't tired when they start driving but become impaired at some point. Some people might have an undiagnosed condition that contributes. There's no reason to not celebrate a simple advancement that might save people from a disaster.
- Mirioron 6y ago
  >But this is a matter of degree. This is it. I don't understand why this isn't higher up in the discussion. Do you check whether your brakes work every time before setting off? Do you check whether your wheels are attached properly every time before setting off? There are a million things that could break on your car. They're just very unlikely to happen. Pilots/maintenance crew for planes checks that kind of stuff for virtually every flight. We accept this small risk with cars. In return we get an enormous increase in efficiency. If everyone had to do a 5 minute check on their car every time before setting off, then that would be a lot of productive time spent on it.

serf 6y ago

Would you accept that response as the reasoning of a judge after an incident? I wouldn't. I'd consider it criminal negligence to get behind the wheel of a car at times when it's impossible to make a suitable effort to drive such equipment. It's not acceptable to hop into a car drunk, either. The effects aren't really that much different between the two, response-time wise.

kbenson 6y ago
The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. I've driven the family from Northern Califorina to Sourthern California quite a few times, many of them overnight. It took one instance of actually falling asleep at the wheel for a few seconds to realize "oh, that's the difference between tired and falling asleep at the wheel." I definitely recognize it now and never let it happen now (stopping and sleeping, trading out for someone else to drive, etc), but the point is I didn't think I was close to that level previously. Experience is something that we can't expect all people to have and exhibit the wisdom of, and unfortunately some things learned through experience are much harder (or nearly impossible) to teach without doing, and for dangerous things that's a problem for normal people. As a much much more extreme example, I've heard that's why Navy Seal training keeps candidates up and physically and mentally exhausted for days at a time. Partly to see who can handle the pressure, and partly so they have experienced that condition before and understand it in themselves and others.
- Silhouette 6y ago
  The problem is, that like drunk driving, the person making the call doesn't always have the experience to know when they are impaired, or how close they are to falling asleep. Then they can follow the same rule as for overtaking: if in doubt, don't. It's not complicated. There is no way you are tired enough to be actually falling asleep without realising you're far too tired to be driving safely. It's not as if it's a close thing where one minute you're alert and driving responsibly and the next minute you're out. Anyone who can't make that determination reliably is demonstrably unfit to be in charge of a vehicle and should hand in their licence.