5 ms·

> Then you'd finally have a desktop OS with no compromises and a huge existing app ecosystem (and a consistent GUI). What compromises does Ubuntu have vs MacOS

by ric2b 6y ago

> Then you'd finally have a desktop OS with no compromises and a huge existing app ecosystem (and a consistent GUI). What compromises does Ubuntu have vs MacOS? It has orders of magnitude better gaming support thanks to Wine + Steam Proton.

grishka 6y ago
Linux GUIs are extremely inconsistent and just generally feel like an afterthought. Out of all GUI desktop operating systems I've used, nothing comes close to macOS as far as consistency goes. Besides that, Linux desktop is this loosely stacked pile of different components that sometimes falls apart. No one wants to spend 50% of their time writing config files and setting up drivers instead of actually doing something useful.
- ficklepickle 6y ago
  So, misconceptions and generalizations then? I don't understand how you can make sweeping generalizations about every desktop environment that runs on Linux. Every DE is an afterthought? Just the fact you call them "Linux GUIs" makes me question how much you have even used any DE with Linux. I spend no time writing system config files. Drivers are part of the kernel, so I also spend zero time on that. Brand-new laptop hardware sometimes takes a while to get support, but it is really easy to check before you buy. It is perfectly OK to prefer a padded, walled garden. Just like it is OK to prefer a modular OSS Linux environment where everything is knowable. Nobody needs to be "right", and nobody needs to bash the other with unsubstantiated claims.
  - grishka 6y ago
    I do, of course, know that there are many DEs and window managers. I generalize them quite purposefully. The point I'm trying to make is that on Linux, there are hardly any well-defined standards for anything beyond system calls. There also are no UI guidelines and there's no single accepted UI toolkit (some apps use Qt, some apps use GTK, some use something else). This leads to overall subpar user experience. Many apps have UIs that make you think before you do something with it. A good UI doesn't make you think, it feels like a continuation of your thoughts right when you see it for the first time. Consistency helps a lot here. (FWIW, the way GUI apps feel and behave doesn't depend much on your choice of desktop environment.) I don't like walled gardens — I despise Apple's service ecosystem and the app store. I just prefer things to work sensibly out of the box. The only reason I made an Apple ID is because it won't let me download Xcode without one.
    - LockAndLol 6y ago
      OK, a few questions: - Why do you think are there so many different DEs, window managers and UI frameworks out there? - How would you go about introducing one singular UI and UX across all of Linux? - How would you foster competition and innovation in that space? - Why do you think Apple is able to define and (somewhat) enforce their standards?
- cjones26 6y ago
  That really depends on the distro. It sounds like you're also talking about how Linux was 10 years ago. I've run Mint for the past decade and I personally consider it a fully featured OS which does everything I need it to do. I admit there is some inconsistency in GUIs depending of the software which you use, though that is simply the nature of the beast. The reason Mac is so consistent is simply due to the fact that you're in a walled garden which Apple fully controls.

by ric2b 6y ago

grishka 6y ago

Linux GUIs are extremely inconsistent and just generally feel like an afterthought. Out of all GUI desktop operating systems I've used, nothing comes close to macOS as far as consistency goes. Besides that, Linux desktop is this loosely stacked pile of different components that sometimes falls apart. No one wants to spend 50% of their time writing config files and setting up drivers instead of actually doing something useful.

ficklepickle 6y ago
So, misconceptions and generalizations then? I don't understand how you can make sweeping generalizations about every desktop environment that runs on Linux. Every DE is an afterthought? Just the fact you call them "Linux GUIs" makes me question how much you have even used any DE with Linux. I spend no time writing system config files. Drivers are part of the kernel, so I also spend zero time on that. Brand-new laptop hardware sometimes takes a while to get support, but it is really easy to check before you buy. It is perfectly OK to prefer a padded, walled garden. Just like it is OK to prefer a modular OSS Linux environment where everything is knowable. Nobody needs to be "right", and nobody needs to bash the other with unsubstantiated claims.
- grishka 6y ago
  I do, of course, know that there are many DEs and window managers. I generalize them quite purposefully. The point I'm trying to make is that on Linux, there are hardly any well-defined standards for anything beyond system calls. There also are no UI guidelines and there's no single accepted UI toolkit (some apps use Qt, some apps use GTK, some use something else). This leads to overall subpar user experience. Many apps have UIs that make you think before you do something with it. A good UI doesn't make you think, it feels like a continuation of your thoughts right when you see it for the first time. Consistency helps a lot here. (FWIW, the way GUI apps feel and behave doesn't depend much on your choice of desktop environment.) I don't like walled gardens — I despise Apple's service ecosystem and the app store. I just prefer things to work sensibly out of the box. The only reason I made an Apple ID is because it won't let me download Xcode without one.
  - LockAndLol 6y ago
    OK, a few questions: - Why do you think are there so many different DEs, window managers and UI frameworks out there? - How would you go about introducing one singular UI and UX across all of Linux? - How would you foster competition and innovation in that space? - Why do you think Apple is able to define and (somewhat) enforce their standards?
cjones26 6y ago
That really depends on the distro. It sounds like you're also talking about how Linux was 10 years ago. I've run Mint for the past decade and I personally consider it a fully featured OS which does everything I need it to do. I admit there is some inconsistency in GUIs depending of the software which you use, though that is simply the nature of the beast. The reason Mac is so consistent is simply due to the fact that you're in a walled garden which Apple fully controls.