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Sadly, one of the reasons I will never buy a Tesla. The lack of privacy concerns me.
by throwaway12757 6y ago
Sadly, one of the reasons I will never buy a Tesla. The lack of privacy concerns me.
- Someone1234 6y agoPer the article: This is opt in. It seems like they're working on an on-board system to detect distracted drivers.
- gamblor956 6y agoPer history: Tesla releases driver data whenever it suits them. See: every autopilot crash.
- addflip 6y agoYep. You're right. This is why I put a piece black electrical tape over the rear-facing camera in my Model Y.
- dkonofalski 6y agoThey do not. They release their analysis of the data in question.
- falcolas 6y agoLike how they blamed the "gore" death on the driver for not having his hands on the wheel? The data showed that the "hands on the wheel" alert preceded the crash by 8 minutes. Tesla will absolutely use any data you send them to attack you, especially if you have the bad taste to die in their car with autopilot active.
- dkonofalski 6y agoWhat data did they release from any accident? If you're going to keep spamming the comments of this thread with claims that Tesla releases the data it collects, you need to support those claims. Tesla has never released the data from an accident. They only release their assessment of the data to authorities and authorities have decided whether to communicate that to the public.
- falcolas 6y agoTesla's public statement as posted in their blog: > The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision. The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken. https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-last-week%E2%80%99s-accident https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-last-week%E2%80%99s-accide... This is from March 30 2018 (the accident occurred on March 23). The NTSB and Tesla dissolved the commitment to investigate in parallel as a consequence of this premature release of data in an attempt to exonerate themselves. https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/12/17229518/tesla-ntsb-autopilot-crash-investigation-removed https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/12/17229518/tesla-ntsb-autop... It's also quite telling that part of Tesla's statement to the press at that time included of the following: > Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect ... yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location The NTSB report didn't come out until Feb 11, 2020. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20200211.aspx https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20200211.as... Tesla absolutely intentionally released log data on their own. EDIT: "If you're going to keep spamming the comments of this thread" This was both unnecessary and untrue. With this comment, I'm up to a grand total of two comments in this entire article's discussion thread.
- Bedon292 6y agoIf you don't opt in, they shouldn't have the data to release. At least until they swap it to an opt out quietly.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y agoOr worse, "can't use this feature without allowing data collection".
- gamblor956 6y agoRight. Should. But given Tesla's history of skirting other legal rules, and their history of releasing driver data from autopilot accidents, I would expect the opt-out to operate more as "we record anyway and then delete it after the fact if you opt out and we don't need the data to protect Tesla."
- zaroth 6y ago~85% of cars have EDR (event data recorders) which are always recording locally. NHTSA requires cars with EDRs to record 15 specific attributes. They’ve also considered making EDRs mandatory, but basically didn’t bother since the vast majority of cars already have them. You need an EDR to implement ADAS features, and some of those are becoming mandatory. The only thing opt-in is remote data sharing.
- messe 6y ago> This is opt in. It's opt-in until an insurance company mandates it (or heavily encourages it).
- umvi 6y agoI think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. You would need privacy guarantees about where camera data is going, but I think it would be worth the tradeoff.
- masklinn 6y ago> I think detecting when a driver is falling asleep could be an amazing safety feature. Welcome to 14 years ago, which is when Toyota first introduced their DMS/DAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_Monitoring_System More generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection
- me_me_me 6y agoIf history is a teacher, Musk is going to invent it in few years.
- SketchySeaBeast 6y agoAn actual few years, or a "fully self driving cars are a few years away" few years?
- xedeon 6y agoNot even close in terms of complexity. I used many of the "Driver Drowsiness" detection from Toyota, BMW and MBenz on my previous cars. They always had false positives, inconsistent and pretty rudimentary. What you're implying is akin to saying Nokia/Ericsson/Palm had smartphones before the iPhone 1 came along. Therefore the iPhone is a non-event. ️ The "hacker" mentioned in this article discovered these detection labels on the Model 3/Y "selfie" camera: BLINDED DARK EYES_CLOSED EYES_DOWN EYES_NOMINAL EYES_UP HEAD_DOWN HEAD_TRUNC LOOKING_LEFT LOOKING_RIGHT PHONE_USE SUNGLASSES_EYES_LIKELY_NOMINAL SUNGLASSES_LIKELY_EYES_DOWN Maybe I'm missing something. But it seems like an apples to oranges in comparison to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but Comma.ai's driving monitoring feature is currently the only one in production that is comparable.
- shekade 6y agoI see this as a safety measure just to ensure driver isn’t distracted or sleeping for the car to alert.
- dkonofalski 6y agoYou have to opt-in to send any of that to Tesla.
- mrfusion 6y agoFor now...
- dkonofalski 6y agoThey legally can't change that unless the law changes.
- gpvos 6y agoI value technical impossibility much higher than legal prohibition.
- cycrutchfield 6y agoThen don't buy it?
- Polylactic_acid 6y agoThe don't buy it argument has never held up. Look at phones, the options for a removable battery, sd card slot, 3.5mm jack are all gone on all but the most primitive/weird models of phones. If the general public goes against your preference then your preference will no longer be an option. For cars this likely means that the only way to get a car that isn't spyware/ad tech will be buying an old car before this happened. That option eventually becomes more and more difficult until you give up and accept whatever the corporations are pushing.
- judge2020 6y agoThis is a problem of society zeroing in on the most convenient technology. You still today are not forced to buy a phone nor a car, but if you want any chance of making a living more than 5 miles away from your home (well, depending on how far you can walk or bike) you need both a cell phone for receiving work-related communication and a car for getting to/from work on time. The problem is that 99%+ of society sees that receiving cooler, better tech (like a faster phone or a more efficient car) is a worthy tradeoff for the issues that only <%1 of consumers aren't happy with.
- eulers_secret 6y agoPrivacy is already dead (or at least, on life support). I'm personally not giving in easily, and certainly wouldn't buy a car with a camera I don't control pointed at my face. That is absurd to me. However, most people just see this only as a safety issue. They're willing to compromise a lot of privacy for a little increase in safety. That's not objectively wrong, but I disagree with it. If I could audit my records, store everything locally, and be ensured there's no way to access this data without my consent, then I'd be more into the idea. But right now... I'm just going to keep my old Prius going for as long as I can.
- huid827 6y agoWhat do you people do in your cars that concerns you so much from a privacy standpoint, other than pick your nose?
- netsharc 6y agoDo Teslas (or other cars) phone home and report where they've been? (DriveNow BMWs, which are technically rentals, do that, so they have that capability.) Have you driven anywhere where -- if you were to run for office -- you wouldn't want the public to know? Or, how would you change your behavior and places you visited if you knew you were "being watched"?
- VRay 6y agoI attend meetings to plot the overthrow of the government if it impinges my freedom Relevant: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uighurs&iar=news&ia=news https://duckduckgo.com/?q=uighurs&iar=news&ia=news
- Biganon 6y agoI talk to myself, a lot. And I talk to others as well. How is this not a privacy concern? I also look sad, or look happy. I really don't want anyone to be able to sell me things based on the days I smile the most.
- aeternum 6y ago>If I could audit my records, store everything locally, and be ensured there's no way to access this data without my consent, then I'd be more into the idea. But right now... I'm just going to keep my old Prius going for as long as I can. This really seems like the right way to go about it. If all Tesla sees are those pre-defined flags (EYES_OPEN, HEAD_DOWN, etc.) then I would consider the tradeoff worthwhile. With an unrestricted video stream, car manufacturers can & will use that data to determine your insurance rate, whether your are using the car for personal vs. rideshare purposes, etc.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 6y agoOperating a motor vehicle on public roads is just about the most compelling reason one should have to sacrifice privacy like this. People have, on the whole, emphatically demonstrated their complete inability to drive responsibly. ~40k deaths, hundreds of thousands of serious injuries, and nearly a trillion dollars in costs every year. Overwhelmingly due to driver error and negligence.