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People need to talk with their wallet to get the message across. There is nothing stopping people from buying a 'dumb' e-reader with internal storage where you

People need to talk with their wallet to get the message across. There is nothing stopping people from buying a 'dumb' e-reader with internal storage where you load epub/pdf/rtf/txt files that you actually own or borrow from a library.

kiaulen 6y ago
Does anyone make these? I know you can get a phone app, but all the e-ink I've seen has been kindle/nook/kobo. I'd happily buy one.
- DoingIsLearning 6y ago
  I still own an old Sony PRS e-reader which they can take from my cold dead hands! AFAIK Most 'non-kindle' e-readers (even those with an online store), will still operate as a mass storage device if you connect them via USB to another machine.
- tempest_ 6y ago
  You can just drop PDFs/Epubs on a Kobo, At least the one I have. It is a bit old now however.
- vict00ms 6y ago
  I use my Kobo like it's "dumb"...but I generally have to use Calibre to convert epub to kpub for it to format right on the "page".
dubcanada 6y ago
Where does a person with very little technological knowhow go to get these epub/pdf/rtf/txt files to somehow load onto this "dumb" e-reader they buy? What is a "dumb" e-reader? What software does a "dumb" e-reader need. There is a reason that Kindle prevail, and it's not because of some conspiracy or a giant company. It's because it's easy, basically like going to Chapters or Barnes and Noble and walking out with a book. There is no similar avenue for "dumb" e-readers. They need to know several levels of skills to get it and it's a lot more difficult then clicking "Buy" and start reading.
- seattledev 6y ago
  If you're so out of touch you can't connect a usb cord and drag and drop files, maybe just stick to physical books
  - srtjstjsj 6y ago
    That's needlessly elitist gatekeeping.
    - Accacin 6y ago
      The phrasing used was not great, but I do not think it's gate keeping. I honestly find it insulting that we think 'normal' people can't drag some files to a device, most family members know how to use a USB drive, and managing files on a USB drive isn't too dissimilar to dragging and dropping files to a device like an e-reader.
      - jkestner 6y ago
        'Normal' people like my parents don't have computers. The burden shouldn't be on them when the hardware they bought was unnecessarily restricted.
  - ZanyProgrammer 6y ago
    Apple has spent more than a decade telling its users that you don’t (and can’t) do that. I wouldn’t assume that’s an easy skill for a lot of people.
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  Isn't Kindle a dumb e-reader? Or does it require Amazon account even to access simple PDFs?
  - blueflow 6y ago
    You can use a Kindle by drag&drop PDF files onto it. If you use it like that, there is no need to connect it to the Wifi at all. I use my Kindle like this.
golergka 6y ago
Like managing your own mp3 library, it's incredibly inconvenient compared to the cloud option. I've done it for years with music, and I'm very happy to just be able to stream whatever I want instead. Same with books.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  As someone who doesn't have unlimited data, the number of services that make it very hard _not_ to use the cloud (including Apple, with their "I know you said put this on your computer, but we really didn't, and we'll just grab it from the cloud when you want to play it on your phone" junk) is extremely inconvenient.
  - golergka 6y ago
    > doesn't have unlimited data Do people still have limited data plans in 2020?
simonh 6y ago
I don't think it's reasonable to expect the market to fix this through customer boycotts. Customers just don't have the time or technical knowledge to understand the issues, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to. In cases like this where there's a huge imbalance in power and technical knowledge between suppliers and users, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the government to legislate on the behalf of it's constituents to protect their interests. I think at this point it's been clearly demonstrated that DRM is simply not necessary to protect functioning markets in digital goods. Apple showed this with iTunes, arguing forcefully for DRM free music downloads. I'm a gamer and there's a very vibrant and successful market in DRM free PDFs in the tabletop gaming industry. I'm no extremist, I don't object to all DRM in every case, but I think arbitrary lockouts like this are clearly wrong, and a right to DRM free copies of material you have bought if a service expires or closes is perfectly fair.
criddell 6y ago
I don't think asking people to figure out how to manage files is a reasonable request. There's a growing number of people whose computer is a phone or tablet.
- pb7 6y ago
  A little learning won't kill anyone. Not so long ago, managing files was a fundamental step in using a computer. It still is for the overwhelming number of office workers.
  - criddell 6y ago
    It won't kill anyone, but it shouldn't be necessary to buy a computer to manage your books. Like I said, a lot of people don't have a computer anymore.
alexgmcm 6y ago
I use a Kindle but just read .mobi files I put on it via Calibre.

kiaulen 6y ago

Does anyone make these? I know you can get a phone app, but all the e-ink I've seen has been kindle/nook/kobo. I'd happily buy one.

DoingIsLearning 6y ago
I still own an old Sony PRS e-reader which they can take from my cold dead hands! AFAIK Most 'non-kindle' e-readers (even those with an online store), will still operate as a mass storage device if you connect them via USB to another machine.
tempest_ 6y ago
You can just drop PDFs/Epubs on a Kobo, At least the one I have. It is a bit old now however.
vict00ms 6y ago
I use my Kobo like it's "dumb"...but I generally have to use Calibre to convert epub to kpub for it to format right on the "page".

dubcanada 6y ago

Where does a person with very little technological knowhow go to get these epub/pdf/rtf/txt files to somehow load onto this "dumb" e-reader they buy? What is a "dumb" e-reader? What software does a "dumb" e-reader need. There is a reason that Kindle prevail, and it's not because of some conspiracy or a giant company. It's because it's easy, basically like going to Chapters or Barnes and Noble and walking out with a book. There is no similar avenue for "dumb" e-readers. They need to know several levels of skills to get it and it's a lot more difficult then clicking "Buy" and start reading.

seattledev 6y ago
If you're so out of touch you can't connect a usb cord and drag and drop files, maybe just stick to physical books
- srtjstjsj 6y ago
  That's needlessly elitist gatekeeping.
  - Accacin 6y ago
    The phrasing used was not great, but I do not think it's gate keeping. I honestly find it insulting that we think 'normal' people can't drag some files to a device, most family members know how to use a USB drive, and managing files on a USB drive isn't too dissimilar to dragging and dropping files to a device like an e-reader.
    - jkestner 6y ago
      'Normal' people like my parents don't have computers. The burden shouldn't be on them when the hardware they bought was unnecessarily restricted.
- ZanyProgrammer 6y ago
  Apple has spent more than a decade telling its users that you don’t (and can’t) do that. I wouldn’t assume that’s an easy skill for a lot of people.
srtjstjsj 6y ago
Isn't Kindle a dumb e-reader? Or does it require Amazon account even to access simple PDFs?
- blueflow 6y ago
  You can use a Kindle by drag&drop PDF files onto it. If you use it like that, there is no need to connect it to the Wifi at all. I use my Kindle like this.

golergka 6y ago

Like managing your own mp3 library, it's incredibly inconvenient compared to the cloud option. I've done it for years with music, and I'm very happy to just be able to stream whatever I want instead. Same with books.

RHSeeger 6y ago
As someone who doesn't have unlimited data, the number of services that make it very hard _not_ to use the cloud (including Apple, with their "I know you said put this on your computer, but we really didn't, and we'll just grab it from the cloud when you want to play it on your phone" junk) is extremely inconvenient.
- golergka 6y ago
  > doesn't have unlimited data Do people still have limited data plans in 2020?

simonh 6y ago

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the market to fix this through customer boycotts. Customers just don't have the time or technical knowledge to understand the issues, and I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to. In cases like this where there's a huge imbalance in power and technical knowledge between suppliers and users, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the government to legislate on the behalf of it's constituents to protect their interests. I think at this point it's been clearly demonstrated that DRM is simply not necessary to protect functioning markets in digital goods. Apple showed this with iTunes, arguing forcefully for DRM free music downloads. I'm a gamer and there's a very vibrant and successful market in DRM free PDFs in the tabletop gaming industry. I'm no extremist, I don't object to all DRM in every case, but I think arbitrary lockouts like this are clearly wrong, and a right to DRM free copies of material you have bought if a service expires or closes is perfectly fair.

criddell 6y ago

I don't think asking people to figure out how to manage files is a reasonable request. There's a growing number of people whose computer is a phone or tablet.

pb7 6y ago
A little learning won't kill anyone. Not so long ago, managing files was a fundamental step in using a computer. It still is for the overwhelming number of office workers.
- criddell 6y ago
  It won't kill anyone, but it shouldn't be necessary to buy a computer to manage your books. Like I said, a lot of people don't have a computer anymore.

alexgmcm 6y ago

I use a Kindle but just read .mobi files I put on it via Calibre.