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If you manage to get a device ID, which wasn't too difficult last time I checked, you can install all the Google crap you want, including the Play store. Rare b

by franga2000 6y ago

If you manage to get a device ID, which wasn't too difficult last time I checked, you can install all the Google crap you want, including the Play store. Rare banking apps will work without any Google crap, most will require Google Play Services (microG works sometimes too), so even without a store, you can just get the APK from wherever and you're good. Modification detection can be handled with Magisk Hide, root detection with RootCloak, custom XPosed modules for the sneakier ones. Occasionally you will see apps using obfuscated native binaries to do advanced detection, but those are rare enough that you can just switch banks.

swiley 6y ago
>get the APK from wherever What an improvement over https. I'm glad the android sandbox has given us so much security.
- franga2000 6y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by that. You can get the APK directly from the Play store with some clever trickery (see the Evozi downloader), but even downloading it from any of the dozen or so mirror sites is secure, if that's your concern, because APKs are signed with the developer's key. The reason I said "from wherever" is that sharing APKs G Play is a legal grey area and I didn't want to mention one specific way of getting them because there are many, all with different pros and cons.
  - panpanna 6y ago
    For apps that really need security, android porivdes attestation using secure element. https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation So it's not all wild west. But most apps don't need this level of security.
Mindwipe 6y ago
> Modification detection can be handled with Magisk Hide, root detection with RootCloak, custom XPosed modules for the sneakier ones. Not really, if they're not using hardware attestation for Safetynet they will do soon. And even the developer for Magisk believes there's no practical way around that. https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestation-hide-root-magisk/ https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestatio...
- franga2000 6y ago
  Thankfully that hasn't rolled out everywhere yet, and most banking apps I've used rely on less sophisticated methods of tamper detection (like RootBeer). Hopefully Orange Man's little trade war slows down adoption by devs somewhat, but once that fizzles out, we might have to start looking at a regulatory angle. I don't like that idea, but what other choice do we have? Google clearly doesn't listen to their customers (or rather, we aren't their customers) and good luck even getting in touch with a bank's dev team, let alone convince them to do something that, to their uneducated higher-ups at least, looks like a security downgrade.

swiley 6y ago

>get the APK from wherever What an improvement over https. I'm glad the android sandbox has given us so much security.

franga2000 6y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by that. You can get the APK directly from the Play store with some clever trickery (see the Evozi downloader), but even downloading it from any of the dozen or so mirror sites is secure, if that's your concern, because APKs are signed with the developer's key. The reason I said "from wherever" is that sharing APKs G Play is a legal grey area and I didn't want to mention one specific way of getting them because there are many, all with different pros and cons.
- panpanna 6y ago
  For apps that really need security, android porivdes attestation using secure element. https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation So it's not all wild west. But most apps don't need this level of security.

Mindwipe 6y ago

> Modification detection can be handled with Magisk Hide, root detection with RootCloak, custom XPosed modules for the sneakier ones. Not really, if they're not using hardware attestation for Safetynet they will do soon. And even the developer for Magisk believes there's no practical way around that. https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestation-hide-root-magisk/ https://www.xda-developers.com/safetynet-hardware-attestatio...

franga2000 6y ago
Thankfully that hasn't rolled out everywhere yet, and most banking apps I've used rely on less sophisticated methods of tamper detection (like RootBeer). Hopefully Orange Man's little trade war slows down adoption by devs somewhat, but once that fizzles out, we might have to start looking at a regulatory angle. I don't like that idea, but what other choice do we have? Google clearly doesn't listen to their customers (or rather, we aren't their customers) and good luck even getting in touch with a bank's dev team, let alone convince them to do something that, to their uneducated higher-ups at least, looks like a security downgrade.