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FWIW We buy raw non-pasteurized, non-homogenized cow milk from the neighboring farm (the cows are grass fed). We go there once a week with our bottles, get 5-7
by ciconia 6y ago
FWIW We buy raw non-pasteurized, non-homogenized cow milk from the neighboring farm (the cows are grass fed). We go there once a week with our bottles, get 5-7 liters worth (costs only 1€/l, cheaper than in the grocery store). It keeps without problem for up to 8-9 days. You do need a good fridge though.
I could go on and on about the qualities of raw milk, the richness of flavor, the high percentage of cream (~6.5% in the case of our milk), beneficial bacteria and mineral content, but the point is that it keeps well enough for us to be able to buy it once a week.
- bartvk 6y agoAnd you accept the risks of bacteria from raw milk?
- xncl 6y agoFWIW via the wiki article on it there is weak to no evidence of benefits but strong evidence of danger. if taste is the reason go ahead and risk your health I've no problem. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-milk-debate/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/raw-milk-debate/
- xncl 6y agoSorry unsure if I am allowed to edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_milk
- ladberg 6y agoWould you mind explaining the qualities? I don't see how pasteurization or homogenization would change the percentage of cream or mineral content. I've never tasted it so I can't speak to flavor, and you're right about beneficial bacteria but I don't know if that outweighs the chances of harmful bacteria.
- redprince 6y agoIt is all for taste. Heating leads to changes in the proteins and sugars (caramelization / maillard reaction) affecting the taste. The more heat and the longer the time it is applied, the more pronounced this change is. Homogenization has a slight impact on mouth feel and taste, usually described as an improvement.
- bitwize 6y agoThe amount of cream in pasteurized milk is tightly controlled; the milk is literally run through a centrifuge and the skim milk separated from the cream, then cream is re-added to a certain percentage. With raw milk, this processing doesn't occur, allowing for cream content as high as it comes straight from the cow.
- srtjstjsj 6y agoThat's not what pasteurized means. You are describing a different process. And anyway the centrifuge process also allows for cream content higher than what the cow produces.
- bitwize 6y agoI know what pasteurized means. But any milk that is pasteurized is about 100% likely to go through this other process also. You really have to get it directly from cow to table to get the true flavor of milk.
- dugite-code 6y agoRaw milk is dangerous, perhaps if you are fortunate enough to source it directly from a cow and refrigerate it quickly enough you can avoid the deadly bacteria building up, But honestly I wouldn't be risking it if I where you. Regardless for the rest of us it's not an option and never will be.
- dmos62 6y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong. I'm guessing that the risk depends on how the cows are kept. Industrialization of milk farming introduced high concentration of cows in cramped spaces, which led to disease/bacteria spread. I'm guessing this, because we kept milk cows for thousands of years and didn't use pasteurization. If that's true, and you know that your milk cow is kept in good conditions, you should feel comfortable drinking its milk raw. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
- Xylakant 6y agoIt’s rather the other way round. Pasteurization was invented at the end of the 19th century and quickly becoming widespread in the beginning of the 20th century (1910 in NY) when it was no longer feasible to have cows in urban centers and transportation took significant time. However, since then, the industrialization of milk production and the introduction of safety standards (cold storage, stainless steel vats to transport, mandatory testing,...) made processing raw milk safer, rather than riskier. Major TBC outbreaks were linked to raw milk - TBC linked to milk is basically a non-issue nowadays, even for raw milk.
- belorn 6y agoYes and no. Different nation has different laws and testing, and different methods for animal handling can increase disease risks. To take an direct example here from Sweden, if a farmers animal get tested positive for salmonella then most if not all the nearby animals are killed and possible even nearby neighboring farmers flocks just to be on the safe side. Raw milk also get tested a lot more since the risk are higher. That said, while its true that we have kept cows for thousands of years without using pasteurization, there is a reason why the average life span is high and child mortality is low. We also used to milk the cow and then directly drink it, rather than collect it and store it for a extended period of time.
- redprince 6y agoPasteurization mitigates a lot of microbiological risks associated with raw milk unless the utmost care is taken during its production and storage. It is still advisable that pregnant women, small children and immunocompromised persons do not consume raw milk and products made from it.
- throwaway189262 6y agoI think it's irresponsible to talk about all the great things of raw milk without mentioning that it's also dangerous. Pasteurization isn't mandated because people like the taste. It's one of many safety regulations written in blood. Many people have died from raw milk, and would still be dying if it was widely consumed
- _-___________-_ 6y agoThe chance of you dying from raw milk from the farm next door, consumed within a few days, is minute. Since that's what GP was talking about, I don't think they're irresponsible for not mentioning dying. Pasteurization is mandated because most people do not live next door to farms, so milk needs to travel and last more than a few days.
- throwaway189262 6y agoIMO this is a classic "no true scotsman". The CDC does not say anything about distance and time making raw milk any safer https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-an... It kind of implies the opposite, that the bacteria don't need to multiply, they're already present. Have you seen studies that show most outbreaks are from bacteria multiplying in the milk rather than contamination at the source? Since even raw milk is promptly cooled which greatly slows bacterial reproduction, I find it more likely that all the contamination needed to cause sickness happens during processing.
- rusk 6y agoA throwaway declaring a rhetological fallacy - how LOL
- throwaway189262 6y agoI just don't want my identities connected. I talk too much smack about big tech on here to risk my career, sorry.
- triyambakam 6y agoYes, I used to do the same. Though I found my whole family is lactose intolerant and we eventually became vegan.
- b0rsuk 6y agoIn Poland, many people look down on pasteurized and UHT milk (which is most of it). The city where I presently live has a vending machine(s) for raw milk, you can even bring your own bottles to save the environment. A big benefit of raw milk is that it goes sour and is suitable for a variety of fermentation methods. This is rich in probiotics and just plain tasty. Also serves as an intermediate product for some recipes like crumpets. Here's a list of used fermentation methods by country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_milk_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_milk_products Here's the default state raw milk reaches within a few days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soured_milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soured_milk ---- EU and US have opposite approaches to some foods. For example in US, chicken eggs are chemically washed completely clean to fight salmonella and other bugs. Unfortunately, it washes off the protective layer they have and eggs go bad faster. So they repaint eggs with another chemical to protect them. In EU, eggs instead receive only basic washing and you frequently find traces of crap on your eggs. US in general is high on processed foods (Oreo cookies in recipes?). Another case is hygiene. Circumcision is common in US for 'hygienic reasons'. Alternatively, you can use soap. My point is that you can go too far with fixing nature.
- schwartzworld 6y agoI don't know. Oreo cookies in recipes and not getting salmonella both sound like perks to me.