5 ms·

In the netherlands you can have them sign a non-compete clause, generally for 1 to 2 years. "This clause prevents them from working for your competitor or from

In the netherlands you can have them sign a non-compete clause, generally for 1 to 2 years. "This clause prevents them from working for your competitor or from starting a similar enterprise after resigning. A non-solicitation clause forbids your employee to contact your clients after resigning." https://business.gov.nl/regulation/non-compete-clause/ https://business.gov.nl/regulation/non-compete-clause/ In the US, lots of folks have famously started up their own ideas if they are frustrated with a big corp. In California that can't be blocked. Is there something I don't know about NL law (very possible!).

tubularhells 6y ago
Those non competes cannot be enforced under EU law of free movement of labour.
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Exactly. If I read my contract carefully I'm sure it has clauses saying I can't compete for N months, and that everyting I create on weekends no matter how unrelated (A hobby piece of software, a novel, a pop song...) is immediately the IP of my employer no matter which equipment I use or if anyone asked me to create it. All of that is obviously non-enforcable nonsense.
  - teekert 6y ago
    Hmm I also have that in my Dutch contract. I really don't like the way my current employer handles their market and I'm eager to do it right myself (I feel that with the right technologies I could really build something nice myself.) This part of my contract has kept me from it (the "we own what you make at any time of the day"-clause). I do understand the clause though, it's just to easy to claim you made up some valuable IP outside of office hours. Maybe I should keep a log regarding the actual dev work... With respect to the non-compete clause, it says in my contract that they can keep me from going to a competitor for a year, but they'll pay me for that year. I wonder if they'd ever enforce this.
    - tubularhells 6y ago
      If you want to go for it, have the company or zzp registered under your spouse's name. The spouse can employ you legally and even transfer ownership once the contractual time is up. This allows you to go ahead with your plans while saving you from all potential headache. Of course, never brag about this online.
      - teekert 6y ago
        Ok, thanx for the advice. They do pay me quite ok and offer me stability, so I would be very open about this to my boss. I was thinking about building something unrelated using the same tech first, for fun and possible profit. Then later I can decide what to do. I already did look for another position (at another company) specifically to have more freedom in this regard, and they (the boss) knows this.
bkor 6y ago
> Is there something I don't know about NL law (very possible!). Not sure if it already happened, but they're moving towards having the (previous) company pay for the non-compete period. Meaning: if you hire someone on a non-compete and the person cannot find work in another field (or lower salary) the previous company has to make the employee "whole". Non-competes are also meant to not be applied to everyone. Only certain employees should have these. This as having every employee on a non-compete is too restrictive for the employees. All of this is/was mentioned on various Dutch sites. It's a bit weird it's not explained on this English one.
superice 6y ago
Yeah, so this is mostly unenforceable. Dutch law prescribes that a non-compete can never block you from practicing your profession as a whole, so at most it can block you from working in a very specific, limited sector of the market (e.g. direct competitors). The burden of proof seems to be on the previous employer to show that you potentially could do damage by working at your new employer. In addition to that, non-competes added to a limited time contract are invalid by definition. Non-competes should also be limited in time to a reasonable duration (commonly understood to be 2 years) It's much easier to instate a 'relationship'-clause in Dutch employment contracts, where you forbid ex-employees from contacting customers/suppliers at their new employer in a professional fashion. Those are much easier to enforce.

tubularhells 6y ago

Those non competes cannot be enforced under EU law of free movement of labour.

alkonaut 6y ago
Exactly. If I read my contract carefully I'm sure it has clauses saying I can't compete for N months, and that everyting I create on weekends no matter how unrelated (A hobby piece of software, a novel, a pop song...) is immediately the IP of my employer no matter which equipment I use or if anyone asked me to create it. All of that is obviously non-enforcable nonsense.
- teekert 6y ago
  Hmm I also have that in my Dutch contract. I really don't like the way my current employer handles their market and I'm eager to do it right myself (I feel that with the right technologies I could really build something nice myself.) This part of my contract has kept me from it (the "we own what you make at any time of the day"-clause). I do understand the clause though, it's just to easy to claim you made up some valuable IP outside of office hours. Maybe I should keep a log regarding the actual dev work... With respect to the non-compete clause, it says in my contract that they can keep me from going to a competitor for a year, but they'll pay me for that year. I wonder if they'd ever enforce this.
  - tubularhells 6y ago
    If you want to go for it, have the company or zzp registered under your spouse's name. The spouse can employ you legally and even transfer ownership once the contractual time is up. This allows you to go ahead with your plans while saving you from all potential headache. Of course, never brag about this online.
    - teekert 6y ago
      Ok, thanx for the advice. They do pay me quite ok and offer me stability, so I would be very open about this to my boss. I was thinking about building something unrelated using the same tech first, for fun and possible profit. Then later I can decide what to do. I already did look for another position (at another company) specifically to have more freedom in this regard, and they (the boss) knows this.

bkor 6y ago

> Is there something I don't know about NL law (very possible!). Not sure if it already happened, but they're moving towards having the (previous) company pay for the non-compete period. Meaning: if you hire someone on a non-compete and the person cannot find work in another field (or lower salary) the previous company has to make the employee "whole". Non-competes are also meant to not be applied to everyone. Only certain employees should have these. This as having every employee on a non-compete is too restrictive for the employees. All of this is/was mentioned on various Dutch sites. It's a bit weird it's not explained on this English one.

superice 6y ago

Yeah, so this is mostly unenforceable. Dutch law prescribes that a non-compete can never block you from practicing your profession as a whole, so at most it can block you from working in a very specific, limited sector of the market (e.g. direct competitors). The burden of proof seems to be on the previous employer to show that you potentially could do damage by working at your new employer. In addition to that, non-competes added to a limited time contract are invalid by definition. Non-competes should also be limited in time to a reasonable duration (commonly understood to be 2 years) It's much easier to instate a 'relationship'-clause in Dutch employment contracts, where you forbid ex-employees from contacting customers/suppliers at their new employer in a professional fashion. Those are much easier to enforce.